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Hot Rods I'M GOING TO BUILD AN ALTERED.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Don's Hot Rods, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I love all the pictures you guys are posting and I am getting a lot of ideas from seeing them. Thanks.

    Don
     
  2. bobw
    Joined: Mar 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,364

    bobw
    Member

    [​IMG]
    Don, my rule book is a few years old but I built my car to these specs and it still passes tech. It is slower slower than 10.00. I'm assuming the design from the firewall rearward has been improved over the years based on unfortunate incidents. Even though a modern cage takea away from the old school appearance I wouldn't race without ir. Especially in a short wheelbase, open cockpit car.

    Based on my limited racing esperience you are going to have tons of fun running your car.
     
  3. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    Thanks, Bob. I am going to blow that up and print it until I get my own copy of the rules. We usually work in DOM but this time we are going to try chromoly for a change. Should be lighter too.

    Today I ordered my front end parts from RPM. I wish all companies did business like Ron, he is such a pleasure to work with and his prices are very reasonable. He is going to make me up a straight axle in a 46 inch width, 38 inch long hairpins, and all the other stuff, like brackets and front spring. I told him to take his time as I haven't even built the mail frame yet, but it should be sometime in December.

    I already have a set of round back 40 spindles, and I think I am going to go with spindle mount front wheels from Team III. My Son pulled up their website the other night and I really like the look of one of their front wheels.

    This is the one I am looking at, and if I can get 15 x 4 in spindle mount I will go with those, otherwise, I might have to go with bolt ons to get the 4 inch width.

    http://www.team3wheels.com/dragmaster.html

    Don
     
  4. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,373

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  5. hog mtn dave
    Joined: Jul 14, 2004
    Posts: 1,337

    hog mtn dave
    Member

    Good choice on the wheels. Spindle mounts ( to me anyway) are a must have on an altered. Team III did a good job whenever we worked with them.
     
  6. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,320

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Love the picture of 'Pure Hell'.
    24" crankshaft centerline, aerodynamic fuel cell mounted safely above the radiator shell and Dale Emory guiding it (sort of) straight down the 1/4.
    I think yours will be a little less scary and much safer Don.
     
  7. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida


    Thanks for the heads up, but a little rich for my blood right now. :) I may have to compromise and do something else.

    We just got home from Turkey Run and I scored a lot of the parts I needed. First thing Friday morning I bought a 9 inch center section that already had the 4.10 gears in it and 31 spline axles I wanted. I will put a seal kit and a full spool in it. If the gears end up not useable I will still be ahead of the $1400 Currie quoted me for one.

    I also bought a brand new B and M shifter and a fiberglass T grille shell. But my best find was a carb scoop I bought from Vintage Speed. It is a homemade aluminum one that came off of Charlie Price's dragster. It is just funky enough to fit the look of the car, and it has a bunch of win stickers all over it. I told my Sons I would paint around the stickers to preserve the history of the scoop, but they said that would make me a poser, so I guess the stickers have to go. :rolleyes:

    Found a bunch of other stuff, like a brand new steering arm for my 40 Ford spindles, bags of stainless AN washers, and small stuff like that. Oh, and I picked up my remanufactured Holley 750 DP carb from All American Carburetor at their booth. It looks better than new, glad I sent it to them to redo.

    Dan and Don found a lot of parts for their Fox Mustang/Capri projects, and they got their pictures taken with Christie Lee from Three Girls Garage. She's pretty hot. :D

    I will take and post some pictures of my swap meet scores, but first there is a nap in my immediate future.............we must have walked 40 miles this weekend and drank more beer and Bloody Marys than the law allows.

    Don
     
  8. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    I've had a cold ever since we got back from TR, and tonight was the first night I felt like going to the shop. But I had to check out my swap meet finds. :) Got a lot of the parts I needed for my altered.

    First of all , I found a fiberglass grill shell. I have changed my mind and will probably be running a radiator, so it should be easier to move the car around the pits and all.

    [​IMG]

    Then, I got a 9 inch center section with 4.10 gears. I am going to get a seal kit and spool from Summit and I hope the gears in it are good enough to use, they look good so far.

    [​IMG]



    Then I got a B & M ratchet shifter. It is just the right size to fit next to my leg in the cockpit.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I also picked up the 750 Holley DP that All American Carburetors remanufactured for me. It looks absolutely like brand new. They have done carbs for us before, and always do a great job.

    [​IMG]


    And........as stupid as it sounds, my very favorite find was this carb scoop I bought from Charlie at Vintage Speed. It came off of his dragster and has a bunch of win stickers on it. I will repaint it to match whatever I paint the body in, and probably remove the win stickers (sob :() I feel like I am destroying a part of history if I do, but I guess it wouldn't be right to run someone elses stickers.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Finally , Ron Pope at RPM is in the middle of making up my front axle and suspension pieces. So, I guess I better get started on the frame pretty fast.

    Don
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  9. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,384

    AHotRod
    Member

    Don ......... you know that most Altered's were run with a 'Open-Differential'
     
  10. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida


    Hi, Glenn. No, I didn't. Do you mean a one wheeler or a posi ? I figure with as light as this thing will be in the rear a spool would be the way to go.

    Don
     
  11. rooman
    Joined: Sep 20, 2006
    Posts: 3,846

    rooman
    Member

    They did run open rears back in the day but I would strongly suggest a spool (and an aftermarket pinion support). in this day and age. You are trying to make this visually correct and a spool will not show. :)

    Roo
     
  12. My last car was a 100 in. T Altered , I had the small Halibrand spindle mounts on front.
    Ran a open Olds rear. when I put a spool in it I had a terrible time turning the car on some tracks with a short shut down area, also in the pits it would scoot the front wheels on a sharp turn.
    I was afraid I was going to damage the front wheels.
    Also, I didnt get any improvements in time,and thought it might make a sharp turn if I broke a rear axle,. Went back to the open rear,always spun both rear wheels, and a lot eaiser to drive
    SPEEDY
     
  13. Also, I beleive a pinion support is a must on the Ford 9in.
    Use a steel one as used on a lot of round track cars if you dont like the look of the aluiminun one.
    SPEEDY
     
  14. ididntdoit1960
    Joined: Dec 13, 2011
    Posts: 904

    ididntdoit1960
    Member
    from Western MA

    +1 on the open rear - thats how I set mine up....I'm at the point where Im ready to start the cage....The hold up is I either need to buy a JD Squared bender or find someone to do the cage for me....I live in western Ma - does anyone have any suggestions for a good shop (please PM me if you do) Don, if I go the route of buying a bender, what radius shoes (dies) should I get? What are you guys doing as far as the cage is concerned? What bender/dies do you have?

    BTW - I used rons stuff out front too - my front axle is 42" with a 4" drop and spring over

    PS - if your going to paint the scoop anyway - I would just use that one as a model to make a copy and hang the original one on the wall or use it as is on another project.....its a cool piece of modern art/history
     
  15. ididntdoit1960
    Joined: Dec 13, 2011
    Posts: 904

    ididntdoit1960
    Member
    from Western MA

    As far as front wheels are concerned, spindle mounts are out of my price range too and I am going for an early "low buck" type build.....my front wheels are 1950s Nash 15x4.5 with a 5x4.5 BP the front tires are BFG 5.00-15 I'm using early ford spindles and for hubs I found some old strange ones for a chevy spindle and am using the spacer/adapter found on the typical disk kits (I am not running front brakes) My rear wheels are also steel. 15x6 with a 5x5.5 BP and 8"x28.5" towel city pie crusts
     
  16. Andamo
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 502

    Andamo
    Member

    Don, I fully understand your reasoning for using that scoop, but I'd either make it garage art item or mask off the win decals and paint the balance of the scoop whatever color you chose for the body. With all those win decals, they'll have to give off good luck to you and your car.
     
  17. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,861

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    [​IMG]

    Hi Don,
    I just found this thread. Here is a picture of my first altered, ca 1970 at Detroit Dragway. It ran 10.30s @ 133 with a 337 SBC and a hydraulic .440 lift cam and a 4-speed Muncie.

    After reading over this thread here are some comments on topics mentioned:

    2 x 3 tube will be better than 1.5 x 3 as originally planed - mine bent after a big wheelie.

    Likewise, use wheelie bars, even if you keep them relatively high - again, my front axle bent after a gigundo wheelie.

    Don't run an open rear end - even on a low HP car.

    I'd stretch the firewall area for room for the footwell. Make yourself comfortable.

    I must have been crazy stoopid for running a single hoop roll bar.
    We all were.

    A 'glide would make a better choice than the 350TH. With no suspension and a lower first gear of the TH you will battle off-the-line handling / traction issues that would have been lessened with a PG. Sometimes "free" is too high a price to pay.

    Good luck - enjoy the "journey".

    SUBSCRIBED
     
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  18. dreracecar
    Joined: Aug 27, 2009
    Posts: 2,908

    dreracecar
    Member
    from so-cal

    If that 3rd member case is not a nodular iron unit, there is a high probability of blowing the pinion out of it at the hit. Good aftermarket units are cheap compared to the damage bad ones create
     
  19. GearheadsQCE
    Joined: Mar 23, 2011
    Posts: 2,320

    GearheadsQCE
    Member

    Frenchtown Flyer,

    I'm going to report you to Inliners International for posting a picture of a V thing engine. And a Chevy at that!
    You should be ashamed of yourself, young man!

    :confused:;)
     
  20. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,861

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Unlike Darth Vader, I started off on The Dark Side. Nowdays I stay True Blue Inline
     
    volvobrynk likes this.
  21. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 4,426

    Marty Strode
    Member

    Frenchtown, thanks for the trip down memory lane. Now it's my turn, I built this one in 1975, it weighed 1515 lbs. wet. Most of the Altered/Bracket cars around here that were "solid mount rears", had a tendency to hop at the starting line. Mine had ladder bars and coilovers, with a Boss 302 Ford and a 4 speed with a 2.78 first gear. The rear gear was 5.43 and had a traction-loc. When leaving the line at 7500, you were busy on the shifter. Note the lack of wheelie bars, this was the first time out for the car. On the "dry hop" on the next run she pulled a 5' wheelie and when it returned to earth, the torsion bar anchors ripped out of the crossmember.. It was and easy fix, but I would not leave home without the wheelie bars again. I do still love those 4 speeds !!!!!!! 2012-08-22 110155.jpg
     
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  22. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 2,861

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Nice ride Marty. I was also thinking about suggesting at least ladder bars in the rear, as my second altered, The Last Logghe (mid 70s) had. It also had a toploader 4-speed with the shifter between my legs. Intrestingly enough, I broke almost every piece of shift linkage in that thing - 3/8 shifter rods, shift levers, clevis pins, etc. Don't ask me how. I could never break a 3/8 shift rod not under race conditions if I tried.

    But I get it that some guys want to remain true to hot rodding roots while keeping construction costs down. Rigid cars can work - but suspended ones are more forgiving on iffy tracks.

    One more comment - I never used load bolts in my 9" rears. Zero failures in 50 years racing.

    [​IMG]
     
  23. AHotRod
    Joined: Jul 27, 2001
    Posts: 10,384

    AHotRod
    Member

    Don,
    Yes, a open rear, no posi or spool.
    As you will find (as on any subject) there are many that raced a Altered without a posi or locked center section. The Altered that I drove had a 468 cubic inch Hilborn injected engine with a 'glide (with a trans brake) with a open carrier.
    The car was 'forgiving' on track, as most tracks are old with traction not always the best or equal for both rear tires.
    I won't debate it with anyone, just be certain not to spare cost of the correct parts for strength and safety.
    Wheelie bars should be on the car as others have said, because when you least expect it, you will be glad you did.
    The MOST important thing ..... be sure to order your drag slicks from someone that will make certain that you get a "Matched Pair" so the circumference (roll out) are the same.

    Your gonna have "Hoot" racing your new toy!
    Glenn
     
  24. Terry Buffum
    Joined: Mar 20, 2008
    Posts: 267

    Terry Buffum
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Oregon

    Don said "And........as stupid as it sounds, my very favorite find was this carb scoop I bought from Charlie at Vintage Speed. It came off of his dragster and has a bunch of win stickers on it. I will repaint it to match whatever I paint the body in, and probably remove the win stickers (sob :() I feel like I am destroying a part of history if I do, but I guess it wouldn't be right to run someone else's stickers."

    Paint it to match YOUR car, but add a few words on top to recognize Charlie's "win" stickers as a recognition of his efforts.
     
  25. 1205141851-00.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  26. As you can tell Im not very computer savvy. For some reason I got two pictures posted and no message.
    Yes on the wheelie bars,I stayed on them for the first 100ft or so.Solid rear and no posi or spool
    This car was very light,even deleted the tach and guages, it shook so bad you couldnt read them anyway. No radiator, just water in the block, drained it on the way back to the pits.
    I have ran several Gassers, but enjoyed the Altered most
    SPEEDY
     
  27. Don's Hot Rods
    Joined: Oct 7, 2005
    Posts: 8,319

    Don's Hot Rods
    Member
    from florida

    You guys have given me a lot to think about. I just automatically thought a spool that would turn both wheels was the way to go.........I see so many cars running one. I figured it would cause the car to go really straight, but I can see how a one wheeler would possibly be more forgiving on uneven surfaces. For years I ran an open rear in my 27 and it would lay down two black strips when I got on it, so you are probably right about one working in this case.

    The car is going to be a work in progress and I will be making changes as I see how it handles and runs. I guess I could start out with the open rear and then try the spool later on. As I have said from the start, this is going to be a budget build, not a record setter. I have two other projects to finish too (my rpu and my 46) so I don't want this one to put me in a position where I am building the other two when I am 95. :p

    But I really appreciate all the suggestions and pictures, those are helping a lot. I am off tomorrow and if I can shake this cold a little more I am going to start cutting my 2 x 3 pieces for the frame rails and getting those notched for the front crossmember.

    Don
     
  28. flatheadgary
    Joined: Jul 17, 2007
    Posts: 718

    flatheadgary
    Member
    from boron,ca

    don, me again. i just want to say to some of the peoples replies, i don't think don is going to be going 200 mph!! a lot of what is said would only apply if you were going that fast. from start to finish. when you only go 10's and slower a lot of this doesn't apply. my brothers car has a 347 cu in ford and a c4 with a 3500 stall and a brake. he has never stalled it that much though. it goes about 11.20's. it doesn't pull wheel stands, so no bars, an auto doesn't hit that hard off the line. he has a spool with an uncut rear too. he doesn't have any problems running it and coming back to the pits either. it weighs 1500 lbs and he has ran it at quite a few tracks with no problem. he has raced it for 8 years. as far as the spool goes, that's up to you but i have never seen anybody running a spool have a problem running these kind of times. everybody except maybe the dragster, run spools in the series we race in. and we are the slowest in our class. just over build it for safety and run the snot out of it. when you want to go faster then heed those words.
     
  29. Danshotrod
    Joined: Dec 7, 2006
    Posts: 213

    Danshotrod
    Member

    Man I'm learning a lot here on this tread thanks Don


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  30. Baron
    Joined: Aug 13, 2004
    Posts: 3,373

    Baron
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You and me both. Good stuff.
     

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