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Illinois Residents that have gotten "The Tax Due Letter"

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Russco, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. NoRo13
    Joined: Jul 22, 2010
    Posts: 3

    NoRo13
    Member

    As for getting something notarized, all that does is provide certification that the person who signs a document is that person he says he is. It has absolutely nothing to do with the document itself.
     
  2. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    This is not correct. A notary can certify that the copy is a true copy of the original document.
    (Yes, I am a notary public....)
     
  3. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    They also have human being employees... wonder what would happen if you asked the PERSON who sent you the letter WHO was the one that received your letter and form, and WHO lost your bill of sale, and if those PERSONS are available for a deposition if it goes to court....
     
  4. R Frederick
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 2,658

    R Frederick
    Member
    from illinois

    I filed for my title June 1st, and will probably never see it. Good thing I didn't plan on selling it, or me and the family could be starving to death.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2010
  5. ride00007
    Joined: Aug 19, 2007
    Posts: 47

    ride00007
    Member
    from Illinois


    Unfotunately... you may have to call about that one. If you've read some of the recent discussions... the "extra" delay usually means they are withholding for a reason and more often it's that they are going to do a serial number verification. It's almost like they want people to have to ask about it.
     
  6. R Frederick
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 2,658

    R Frederick
    Member
    from illinois

    Guess I meant to type June 1st. If I don't hear from them soon, I'm going another route and tell them I sold that car for parts. Doesn't matter to me if I have a home built title or not. I'm just glad I got the season in on the registration alone.
     
  7. Fatbob309
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 491

    Fatbob309
    Member

    I am to and all that my stamp proves is that the person sitting infront of me has proven to me that they are who they say and that they are signing the doc.
     
  8. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,176

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Yes thats exactly what I'm saying here is a quote from the back of the RUT 50 form
    "Attaching a copy of the bill of sale or proof of purchase may prevent future notices"

    The way this is worded may be their loophole in doing this "May prevent future notices"

    However here is the deal Im questioning
    First, if they doubt or question the originally submitted bill of sale thats one thing but destroying them or "losing" them is another. Then allowing an identical copy of the originally submitted bill of sale to resolve the issue is just stupid. they are obviously hoping you cant produce another copy and will either have to get an appraised value or just pay the increased tax bill.


    Second, they should not be able to wait months to notify you of a problem with this

    .
    Third, the value that is to be taxed is the value at time of purchase,not months later when more times than not the value has increased significantly.


    Fourth, my letter stated that they did an independant valuation on my car. (this maeans NADA price for average clean retail price) but they have no idea what condition my car is in and by the way the average retail price on my 51 convertible was 30,000 which is about 30% higher than what Ive seen really nice stock verts sell for let alone average condition, and what would average condition be for a 60 year old car it sure as hell aint close to a running driving car.
     
  9. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,922

    Fenders
    Member

    OK but in Massachusetts a Notary can provice "copy certification" -- see
    http://www.mass.gov/Agov3/docs/EO455finalrevised.doc
     
  10. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    I don't think you will be able to prove that they intentionally discarded or lost your paperwork. In my case the papers went to 4 different branches of state government, legal,for bonding, law enforcement, DMV for plates and now on to revenue. Any one department can lose a paper, the guy who applied my numbers had most of my package for titling in his docket, each department pulls out what they need.
    Wicked 50: Did you apply for a duplicate title or a bonded title? I applied May 15 and just got my tags a week ago.
     
  11. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,506

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Ha, Ha, Ha.....LMAO......:D:D:D......Hmmm.....Maybe something could have been wiped with that piece of paper????:eek::eek::eek:
     
  12. NickGee
    Joined: Feb 16, 2006
    Posts: 42

    NickGee
    Member

    It seems like the law in Illinois is Guilty till proven innocent. I transferred a title to my name just before this stuff hit. Back Then you paid $75.00 transfer fee and you were good to go, So I thought. 2 or 3 months later I received a letter saying that I owe about $6000. for sale tax. that would value my car at about $80,000. I think they watch Barret Jackson to value the cars. It was not to bad to resolve it. All I did was submit a copy of the bill of sale and A canceled check. It is the guilty till proven innocent the pisses me off.
     
  13. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,176

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL


    Thats why Im trying to show a pattern of "lost" bill of sales. In my case and several others local to me I live in Springfield (and am a state employee)my rut 50, bill of sale and check were stapled together they were submitted at the SOS Howlett building they then go to the Willard Ice building a few blocks away. There they had my check and rut 50 just but lost the bill of sale out of the middle of the three. I know of about 4 other local guys the exact same thing in recent weeks. All the SOS does with the RUT 50 forms is pass them along to revenue where they are processed.

    When I called and spoke to an agent about it they tried blaming it on a title service or changing hands alot before it arrived to them. Then I said "look I stapled it myself turned it in at the Howlett building" and that I was a state employee too and know that they are messengered right over to the Ice building he got shitty with me and pretty much hung up on me. Today another friend (from Springfield) took his second copy of the bill of sale in to resolve his "letter" same thing they only lost his bill of sale too.
    Im no Statisticion but the odds of them repeatedly "losing" only the bill of sale would be very, very unlikely.
    I work for the Judicial branch of state government we handle MILlIONS of pages of documents if we were to lose documents in the frequency they are "losing"these bill of sale copies I assure you somebody would be fired!
     
  14. Ebert
    Joined: Feb 13, 2006
    Posts: 1,915

    Ebert
    Member

    I personally think that you ARE on to something. My pal just got his "letter" and after my recent purchase of my '31, I am expecting one myself even though I included a copy of the REAL, original Bill of Sale. Who turned these assholes into classic car evaluators??? I am with an earlier poster...they are just taking a shotgun approach hoping that someone "wilts."
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2010
  15. Stick Shift
    Joined: Oct 2, 2005
    Posts: 2,558

    Stick Shift
    Member
    from LENA IL

    Funny how this state can lose somethings and hold on to others. LOL
     
  16. jbristow
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 19

    jbristow
    Member
    from ohio

    I feel sorry for you folks living in IL, I live in Ohio, but read the Sun Times every day and can't believe the goverment corruption and how the State residents are screwed over on a daily basis.
     
  17. that really sucks, i'm glad i live in nebraska, maybe if the insurance companies and goverment agencies got together the prices would go down
     
  18. Seepwater
    Joined: Aug 13, 2006
    Posts: 169

    Seepwater
    Member

    Boys,
    I moved from Illinois 5 years ago. "Illinois Government - the best money can buy"!

    Now in Wyoming and not having problems.
    Seepwater
     
  19. LM14
    Joined: Dec 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,937

    LM14
    Member
    from Iowa

    I, too, am a Notary and have been for almost 20 years. All my stamp means is that the person signing the document in front of me is that actual person. Iowa instructions to Notaries specifically states that you are not notorizing the document, just the signature. We don't care what the document is, aren't even supposed to look at it except for the signature areas.

    You might see these letters more with transfered out of state titles. There is supposed to be a nationwide crackdown on the practice of "laundering" titles and our hobby is looked at hardest.

    SPark
     
  20. halfcockedcustoms
    Joined: Jun 5, 2007
    Posts: 640

    halfcockedcustoms
    Member

    Damnit Mike,, you got me freakin out now,,,,
     
  21. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,176

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Grayson they are just trying to trick people into paying more tax than they need to, its that simple another copy of the bill of sale will solve the issue.
     
  22. So maybe people should start turning in bills of sale for less than they actually paid. Not to be absurd, like saying you paid $100 for a done, turnkey car or anything, but every $100 less helps your wallet stay a tad fatter.

    In some states that's actually pretty common practice, if the car is old enough, I once turned one in saying I paid two cents for the car - turns out the computers can't calculate that low, I paid the sales tax on a dollar. The clerk questioned that one, but I told her the guy who had it was mad at it and said "for two cents..." and that I gave him the two cents. Even then she only thought I should go back and do the forms they have for gifting a car to someone, is all. It wasn't worth that much hassle for a winter beater.
     
  23. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,176

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    If the purchase price is under $15,000 and the car is 11 years old or older the tax is $25.00 period if over $15,000 it starts at $750.00 and goes up from there
     
  24. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    The Rut 50 says this:

    Table A starts at 1 or less to 11. dollar amounts 390.00 to 25.00.

    Thats confusing.

    Table B ( this is pretty cut and dry)

    $15,000.00 to !9,999.00 $750.00
    $20K to 24,999.00 $ 1000.00
    25 K to 29,999.00 $ 1250.00
    30 K or more $ 1500.00

    On the back of the RUT 50 it says plain as day that 30 K or more is $1500.00. As far as I am concerned they are not getting a greasy nickel more than that, I have heard stories of guys getting $2500. bills from them, well this line right here says max $1500.00, Am I correct.
    Now I went to the currency exchange to try to get a notary, guy looked at me like I was 3 headed, and refused. I called the seller, he couldn't get me a notarized BOS.
    Pay attention now cause this part really sux, I was told that in the case of a vehicle BOS notarization that the notary must be witness to the transaction by both parties present. You have to physically stand in front of the notary so they may actually witness the transaction, so in a sense they are performing the task of being a professional witness for the interests of any parties involved. Yeah WTF? right? I went back to the currency exchange guy and he confirmed this. So now in order to be proper you have to involve a certified 3rd party as witness or the BOS may be challenged for authenticity. Nice....
    As far as the BOS I sent in, the officer who performed my inspection had my RUT50 and the pictures, the check and all the forms including my BOS had already been de stapled, I asked about it and he said he did not have it, perhaps it is being kept by bonding or legal and included in their submittal and not being forwarded to revenue.
     
  25. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,176

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Frank I have not been able to find anything that says the BOS has to be notorized they will gladly accept a second copy (not Notorized) thats identical to the first copy submitted to settle the issue. Myself and a buddy of mine both did it in person this week.
     
  26. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    That would be the best frickin news I could have for 2010, I sent them a check for 25 bucks, I'm sitting here awaiting the day of "the letter" with it asking me for as much as $4500.00. Did you submit your letter to revenue? Or DMV? I can't find anything thats says that either, only the currency exchange guy and another notary, still, if I buy another car to title hereI think I will go that route just in case.
    I have this same thing going on with permits, the shoe doesn't know where the sock is, just a lot of aspects, departments and bodies involved. I feel sorry for a guy who just craps and pays out. I'll keep you posted.
     
  27. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,176

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    I took it in person to Revenue, it took only 3 minutes to do it. They took the 3rd page of the letter and stamped it " and gave it back to me.
     
  28. Francisco Plumbero
    Joined: May 6, 2010
    Posts: 2,531

    Francisco Plumbero
    Member
    from il.

    Dang! I think your'e good then, pray for me. Hahaha.
     
  29. Trencher
    Joined: Nov 27, 2009
    Posts: 87

    Trencher
    Member

    they told me to expect a tax bill in the mail when I titled/plated my '54 this summer..I told them I paid $2900 and she said "yeah, right"..the 25.00 tax in IL on older vehicles is right...but my wife's Tahoe falls under that as well....I paid $9,000 for it and $2,900 for the 54, but they want to tax me more on the 54? I recieved my title and AV plates last week, only a day apart....are you guys getting your tax bill before you get your title back?
     
  30. firingorder1
    Joined: Dec 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,147

    firingorder1
    Member

    Is it OK with you guy that when the next Bash California thread starts I refer them to this thread? It sounds like a real bend over and spread'em DMV.
     

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