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If your not a welder, know your limitations!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by DMFB, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. DMFB
    Joined: May 22, 2009
    Posts: 545

    DMFB
    Member

    Written by one of my biggest mentors. Plus....if anyone could put a chassis together with bailing wire and make it safe...it is Terry Montgomery. lol.
     
  2. One of our QA guys worked on the Miller Stadium project in Milwaukee. He said the people who couldn't pass the structural test were sent off to weld on handrails and stairways as they are not technically considered "structural"....

    Scary
     
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mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> Sounds like we need to be careful we don't get killed by the welding "buggy man". Yes I have seen welds break (my welds included) but very rarely. So rarely in fact, I don't even remember the last time I found a broken weld. For the most part, welds usually just don't snap unless the weld area was not properly prepped or the design was at fault to begin with. 3 times out of a 100 no one gets killed or even hurt if a weld fails. So what I am saying is this, if you use the correct weld machine for the welding application, employ common sense in your hot rod design, get good penetration on your welds, do not overheat the base metal and never never never weld structural components while drinking alcohol or smoking dope, you should be alright. In addition, when possible, I always try to employ a combination of both bolting and welding to join metal components together where and when "structural" integrity is paramount (ie. frames, suspensions and steering components).


    Specs
     
  4. tooljunkie
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 209

    tooljunkie
    Member
    from manitoba

    welding is an aquired skill.i am not a welder,doubt i will ever be.
    yet,at work i weld almost every day.if its something structural,i find ways to try and break it.if i dont like the welds,i grind em out and do over.
    i built a root ripper for a small backhoe,being concerned about my welding abilities,i drove machine over to a stump and proceeded to pick the machine up off the outriggers and attempt to break it off.for all my trying i couldnt break it.not even a crack.my confidence is improved,but i wont build anything that a broken weld could hurt anybody.i sub that out to the welding shop.

    if it looks like birdshit,it probably is.

    i really didnt know how to arc (stick) weld until i ran out of mig gas.then i stick welded for a few weeks,had a welder friend coach me and 'splain what i needed to know-basics wise.it hs dramatically improved in the last two years.
     
  5. rustyhood
    Joined: Dec 2, 2009
    Posts: 719

    rustyhood
    Member

    Nice to read a thread like this one, so many don't give safety a second thought until it's to late. Building rods is a test of our intelligence and design by idea. Nothing wrong with having experienced people directing or helping you create your masterpiece.:D
     
  6. redd
    Joined: Aug 23, 2010
    Posts: 10

    redd
    Member
    from akron

    Bubblegum ....lol..... thats funny.
    I seen those kind of weld on many car frames that came into the junk yard I worked at many years ago.
    These cars were junked just for that reason...The weld failed.
    They were mostly old Buicks and Cadillacs on the rear drivers side were the frame starts it's bend up over the wheel well. It seem that all these GM car frames went bad in that one spot.
     
  7. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    Like you, I live in the rust belt and see many rusty frames. Got called to tow in an early 60s Mercury because the rear brakes locked up. The frame had rusted and the parking brake cables were the only thing holding it together.
     
  8. Dan Timberlake
    Joined: Apr 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,238

    Dan Timberlake
    Member

    I would hesitate to weld straight across a tube, channel, etc subjected to repetitive, cyclic bending or tension. Chassis get subjected to repetitive bending as they go down the road. Lots of machine parts accumulate millions of stress cycles in a week.

    pages 16 and 17 here -
    http://www.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/welding-1.pdf
    Similar info is in welding design books, that even include large adjustments for permissible weld stress based on the weld geometry.

    I like looking at earth moving equipment to get a feel for efficient optimally designed structures. No welding on the tops or bottoms of members subjected to bending, and sculptured members, reinforcements and fittings to reduce stress concentration and keep welds (the weak links) in low stress areas.
    Even pick up truck frames these days use sculptured brackets to feed load close to the neutral axis or low stress areas.
    http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Dodge/2010-Dodge-Ram-1500-Truck-Image-e01-1024.jpg
    http://catused.cat.com/images?equipmentId=1698267&sequence=3&style=L

    bicycle frames have used relatively small diameter tubes and inefficient, non-triangulated construction forever, and brazed, sculptured lugs were considered necessary to preserve material properties, and reduce stress concentration and fatigue cracking.
    http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/frame_materials_2.jpg
    Some designs are quite ornate, perhaps for ornate-ness' sake.
    http://surfabike.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/lug_bicycle_frame.jpeg
     
  9. 40FordGuy
    Joined: Mar 24, 2008
    Posts: 2,908

    40FordGuy
    Member

    I agree... Some things are best left to the pros !!

    4TTRUK
     
  10. Jon1953B4
    Joined: Nov 26, 2010
    Posts: 85

    Jon1953B4
    Member
    from MD

    This is grounding as someone who is young and wants to weld everything they can, now that they own welder. "Patience grasshopper," and pros when needed.
     
  11. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,137

    oj
    Member

    I hate these 'welding' discussions and find it best to stay away but Dan Timberlake brought up a good point i'd like to expand on. When i learned chassis fabrication one of the things pounded into me was that you never just have a bracket. Like the earthmoving equipment dan mentioned, you don't just hang a bracket out there and weld it in. If you look at a proper built race chassis (space frame) you'll see that all tabs/brackets etc are situated at a structural intersection. for instance, a shock mount bracket is not just welded to the frame. the design engineer will know where the shock must mount and there will be an intersection there with other tubing to support that particular area.
    A proper design/layout is as important as the physical effort as the weld. A proper design will make a good welder look great; a poor design will take a great welder to make it look good.
     
  12. 100% Matt
    Joined: Aug 7, 2006
    Posts: 2,471

    100% Matt
    Member

    No they're typically rodz
     
  13. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,065

    porknbeaner
    Member


    I use a 110 for tacking, I don't have a 220 or high amp rig here. Once I get everything structural tacked up I have a friend that can bring his big Miller over and we go to work. That way neither one of us leave at the end of the day wore slap out just so I can have a trick suspension or chassis.

    If you donot posses the skill or experience to do a major welding job but are a good fabricator/fitter you can save a buck buy getting it all fit up and ready for final welding. Then hire someone who you trust to do the finish welding.

    But getting back to the original statement yes in deed if you are not competent please hire someone else to weld it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  14. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,160

    lostforawhile
    Member

    does this resemble the car mentioned in the original post? [​IMG]
     

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