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If your not a welder, know your limitations!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by DMFB, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,106

    scottybaccus
    Member

    That's a BS statement from the start.

    I've done good chassis work for several years with a Miller 130. They are rated for 3/16 material in a single pass. Most frame materials are 11 ga to 3/16, so it has plenty of capacity.

    The issue is not knowing how to weld in the first place.
     
  2. Ft.ValloniaStreaker
    Joined: Nov 22, 2011
    Posts: 69

    Ft.ValloniaStreaker
    Member

    Medora Lodge #328 Medora,Indiana
    Forget the goat bring on the dancing girls! My wife always ask about them......
     
  3. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,106

    scottybaccus
    Member

    BS, there is no such requirement for chassis construction. Uncertified welders build NHRA and IHRA certified chassis all the time.

    "certified" means that you are trained in using techniques specific to certain structural standards, most which never come into play in building a hot rod chassis.
     
  4. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,106

    scottybaccus
    Member


    That's an example of an expert being out of his element. This is why statements like the one I rebutted above don't make sense.
     

  5. This is something that can't be overstated.

    I want to step in here for a moment, and stop those thinking that all the fault lies on these 110v machines. It is true that they are obviously less powerful, but, that doesn't mean that they aren't capable of welding road going objects. Most of them are rated for 3/16"-5/16" steel, and can do more WITH CORRECT PREP WORK. Companies usually understate their equipments ratings.I've routinely welded 1/4" steel with a Hobart Handler 135, and often things far thicker. With proper prep work they can do the job. The problem usually lies with the people not taking the time to even wipe the dust off the steel, and then complaining that it is the machines fault. Most of the work done in this field is MIG, and the globular transfer of MIG prevents its' ability to burn through contaminants. The larger machines produce more power allowing them to better burn through the contaminants, but, just because they can doesn't mean that they should have to. Again, I've welded numerous things with these small 110v, and now the newer "super 110s", and find them to be quite capable. It is just a matter of knowing their strengths, and weaknesses, and taking the time to do the job right.
     
  6. IFABSTUFF
    Joined: Mar 15, 2011
    Posts: 87

    IFABSTUFF
    Member

    wha? I see every 10 gauge frame is very in need of a vertical uphill weld using .045 dual sheild wire. I mean damn, we want hot warping structural welds briddling frames for bragging rights to have it technically structural welded. :D
     
  7. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,106

    scottybaccus
    Member

    All this must first be accompanied by the knowledge to recognize a good weld and a bad weld, and all the conditions that contribute to both.

    The failure described by the OP was bubble gum globby welds done by someone that thinks a welder is a magic glue wand. It simply isn't that easy. If you don't KNOW that you are producing a quality weld, you shouldn't be attempting it. If you do KNOW, then you are knodding your head right now.
     
  8. *knod ;)
     
  9. .045??? Psssh, I don't pick up the whip for anything less than 30volts, and .064....:cool::p
     
  10. drmrman
    Joined: Nov 20, 2011
    Posts: 222

    drmrman
    Member
    from new Jersey

    Blame the town.... Shouldn't be big pot holes in the road.....



















    Haha.... Sorry...
     
  11. IFABSTUFF
    Joined: Mar 15, 2011
    Posts: 87

    IFABSTUFF
    Member

  12. moefuzz
    Joined: Jul 16, 2005
    Posts: 4,951

    moefuzz
    Member


    I'd sponsor you anytime as an a new/old apprentice, and I am certified as a welder and teacher.

    The only thing that an apprentice needs is a willing ear and good eyesight.

    All other need not apply.

    (BTW, it's cold up here but we do need welders as there are lots of jobs)
     
  13. yblock292
    Joined: Oct 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,938

    yblock292
    Member

    Mulvane Kansas lodge #201
     
  14. wingman9
    Joined: Dec 30, 2009
    Posts: 804

    wingman9
    Member
    from left coast

    I heartily subscribe to the idea of having somebody really good weld my chassis. I did all the prep and tacked the various pieces but when it came to finish-welding I got one of the rig welders that works in the refinery where I work. I have all these great tools and some day I hope to learn to use them. :D
     
  15. deeddude
    Joined: Aug 30, 2011
    Posts: 127

    deeddude
    Member

    Goose Creek # 1192 Baytown, Texas

    <O:p</O:pI agree with everything Scotty stated. I've built and repaired plenty of roll cages using a 110 volt machine. They can and will do more than most people think. I have one chassis that is over ten years old with no issues. This chassis has been run mostly on dirt tracks and the chassis has no cracks. I paint my chassis white so if there is a crack it will show after washing and a few days.



    <O:p</O:pYes, there are a lot of bird shit welders out there; but the blame shouldn’t be placed on the welding machine. I work in an industry where these so called “certified” welders work. I’ve seen good ones and bad ones. Some of these guys pass the test for certification, but once they get into the field they don’t make it. The X-rays don’t lie, just last week one welder had four tracers shot on him because he had issues with one weld, two tracers shot; had issues with those and lastly the four. He may not have a job when it’s all “said and done”. This guy was a certified welder and used a 300 amp Lincoln to make his production welds.



    <O:p</O:pSo the arguments against the 110 volt welding machines hold no value in my opinion.


    <O:p</O:pMy $0.02<O:p</O:p
     
  16. carlos
    Joined: May 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,381

    carlos
    Member
    from ohio

    Harmoney Lodge # 2 Cincy I be a Piller with a 357:D
     
  17. rustang
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 710

    rustang
    Member

    I did most all of my welding on my chassis with a combination of my Lincoln AC/DC stick, and my Lincoln Promig 140 using flux core wire (boxing plates, etc).

    For my frame mounts (engine, rear end) I used the DC with 7018 stick exclusively... for the front end (straight axle mounts I tacked it and had my buddy (ASME welder, and all around general fabricator) do the axel welds with my Stickwelder....just felt better him doing those...:)

    Oh and, Mosinee, WI, Lodge #318 :)
    Tom
     
  18. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 41,105

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Well lots of back n forth going on here.
    Let me jump in the fray. Not many certified welders working for Ford these days, never really has been.
    Something to consider is that if you are not a welder, a class down at the Vo-tech or comunity college is not very expensive. That should give you the basic skills that you need.
     
  19. batt69nova
    Joined: Nov 4, 2009
    Posts: 225

    batt69nova
    Member
    from OR

    Willamette Lodge #2 here. (Portland, OR)

    I know a lot of Masons that are into hotrods.

    If you look at the thread I've got going on my '54 Olds, you can see why I'm relying on my friend's welding expertise (he has his own metal fab business and is a far more skilled welder than I am). I can weld on body panels and shape metal, but I just don't trust my skill level for structural welding.
     
  20. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,470

    jazz1
    Member

    I know I could weld my IFS in but if ya got a pro willing to do it for a case of beer i'll tend bar. I just don't do enough welding to start laying endless perfect rolls of bead

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  21. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,470

    jazz1
    Member

    Had my boy,,a boilermaker by trade make me a gas tank,,,pressure tested and no leaks till yours truly installed a filler spout and sending unit and I get 3 holes in a mere 8 inches of weld.[​IMG]
     
  22. K-88 ghost
    Joined: Nov 5, 2009
    Posts: 214

    K-88 ghost
    Member
    from Nevada

    Thanks for the offer moefuzz but high school was 55 years ago, I'll get a hood and watch. :cool:
     
  23. Engine man
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,476

    Engine man
    Member
    from Wisconsin

    The guy was used to working with prepared joints and a large wire feed machine in a factory setting where they rotated the tanks to weld horizontally. Working with rusty steel and a stick welder in a vertical position is quite different.
     
  24. oldcarfart
    Joined: Apr 12, 2005
    Posts: 1,438

    oldcarfart
    Member

    The bigger the glob, the better the job.
     
  25. S.F.
    Joined: Oct 19, 2006
    Posts: 2,891

    S.F.
    Member

    thats why I always have my chassis built by pros for me.
     
  26. A pro built the chassis for my dragster, a pro built the cage in my Uni and a pro is building the chassis for my Tudor. Nuf ced.
     
  27. I've welded with 110 mig and a water cooled Tig. The difference was that I could weld all day long with the tig and not stop. The little machine welded fine but not for long periods. A puddle is a puddle.
    Good prep being a given.
     
  28. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,860

    Retro Jim
    Member

    I understand what you are saying and I agree with you 100% ! I have seen some really nasty welds on cars at shows and wonder how the hell they go it to the show without falling apart ! I do the sheet metal pretty good now and have only tried some thicker metal for practice . If I need a frame made I can promise you it won't be made by me ! I can build a car but don't have the skills to build you a frame or do frame work and I would be the first one to tell you that right away . I hope to learn one day when someone teaches me but right now I just keep doing the sheet metal work and get better everytime I do it .

    Retro Jim
     
  29. Ex-millwright / boiler tube welder ... now safety guy here....

    Someone above said it best... "a puddle is a puddle".

    When I started welding I had 5-6 years of time messing around with mig and stick welders not really knowing what I was doing (thank God I didn't weld anything that would have killed anyone if it had failed). When I started work as a millwright I remember them asking me if I could weld... "Ya,I know how to weld" I said... boy was I wrong. Only then did I really learn.

    Now I could weld two 100 foot thick pieces of metal together with a 110 mig welder if they were preped properly.... granted it would take me a long time.

    Pet peves....

    I hate when people focus straight away on penatration. All this tells me is they want the machine to do what should really be done by prep / beveling.

    "I'm a certified welder!!" .... there is no such thing. People become certified in specific processes.... there is no magic certification to deem someone a "certified welder".

    All this reminds me of this quote....

    "An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you do know and what you don't." <CITE>France, Anatole</CITE>


    So basically the smart folks will know that they don't know what they are doing and educate themselves properly first or find someone that knows what they are doing (hopefully). The stupid folks will go out, pick up a machine, throw away the instructions, not take any advice, not do any research on the internet, not take a class... whatever... and then proceed to try and gob things together. Then... by some act of God.... whatever it was they were trying to weld actually stuck together causing them to think they did it right and continue through life ignorant until something changes their tune.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
  30. coolbreeze1340
    Joined: Aug 18, 2009
    Posts: 1,342

    coolbreeze1340
    Member
    from Indiana

    6g don't mean a whole lot in the real world. Take a class, practice for 15 hrs that week and you'll pass 6G for sure. Certified only means that know how to weld and pass the test piece. Take them out of a welding boothe, take away their "shiny,new metal", they will have issues. Practice Practice Practice is the only thing that makes a great welder.
    (I have taken 1G, 3G, and 6G and in no way claim to be a great welder, just a hobby burner. I hope to start playing with my new TIG set-up tonight and see what kind of scrap I can make with it!)
     

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