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If I wanted to build a hi perf Model A banger....?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TweedDeluxe, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. BiscayneBrain
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 122

    BiscayneBrain
    Member

    What would I do to the motor? How much streetable hp? How much $?
    Thanks
    Dean
     
  2. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

  3. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,590

    117harv
    Member

    Use the search function in the upper right corner, do advanced search on titles ony and type in...banger. Enough info will come up to keep you reading for weeks. Also there is a monthly banger thread with links to info and parts.
     
  4. As 117harv said, there is a monthly banger thread here. Get yourself some food, drink, and a few spare hours, kick back, and start reading. Theres a lot of info, yourll be an expert on bangers if you read it all.
     
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  5. right in crook county is antique engine restorations in skokie actually
    5 grand for about 80hp and it would look almost stock
    add aluminum goodies and exotic intakes and you start racking up the price of addmititon
    bangers make a shit ton of torque which is why i like driving them
    tk
     
  6. 29 Speedster
    Joined: Aug 2, 2011
    Posts: 151

    29 Speedster
    Member
    from Colorado

    Jim Brierley has been building 4-Bangers for many years, and has published a 180 page book on 4-Bangers he sells for$24. He is on H.A.M.B. but I don't know his handle here. You can contact him at: jimb4e4@gmail.com. Worth the money. Good Luck!
     
    ralphie9n likes this.
  7. Pete1
    Joined: Aug 23, 2004
    Posts: 1,649

    Pete1
    Member
    from Wa.

    12K will get you 150 reliable, dyno tested, hill climb winning, streetable hp.
     

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  8. frog49
    Joined: Jun 23, 2013
    Posts: 10

    frog49
    Member
    from Elma WA

    Are you planning to start from scratch or add equipment to a daily driver??
     
  9. BiscayneBrain
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 122

    BiscayneBrain
    Member

    I'm looking for a vehicle right now to start driving and building ect...I have a certain budget for said vehicle and want the best vehicle I can get for my money. In this order: 1930-31 Model A, 1940 and under Ford possible Chevy, Certain Chevy or Ford pickups 1930 -57.

    I'm trying to get a feel for what I can do with a Model A. Just getting my feet wet w/ real hot rods.

    Thanks to all, for info provided.

    Dean
     
  10. Dean,

    The basic Model A long block is $3195 at Schwalms http://www.schwalms.com/services.htm). I would add as a minimum Engine Balancing at $225. You need to start with a rebuildable block (you might allow $200 and some time looking). You will still need to have the carburetor rebuilt (another $200). A rebuilt leakless water pump ($200?). Note that I have not discussed the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate or transmission. This will get you about 40hp. Add a cam from Bill Stipe ($425), a counter weighted crankshaft ($495), a high compression cast iron head ($400?) and a Model B carb to get about 70hp. Insert main bearings ($700) and rod bearings ($375), downdraft manifold $286) and 2 rebuilt Stromberg 97’s ($500), a header ($396) and a reproduction Cragar overhead (http://www.millerhi-speedheads.com/dyno4.htm) (a reproduction Riley or Roof overhead for $4500 will probably get about the same hp but that is a hot topic, http://www.secretsofspeed.com/Model A Speed Parts.htm) and for about $12K you will have a neat engine that will get about 140hp. That is enough to make you want to settle for less that the high end or build a 4 Cylinder Chevy II. Good luck.

    Charlie Stephens
     
  11. bgaro
    Joined: Sep 3, 2010
    Posts: 1,189

    bgaro
    Member

    geez, how many carburetors u puttin' on this thing?
     
  12. BiscayneBrain
    Joined: Aug 10, 2013
    Posts: 122

    BiscayneBrain
    Member

    I won't be building a banger. Looks like I'll need a proper frame for a small block on my first build. Working on a super t10 plus extras...wish me luck!
     
  13. Benny_H
    Joined: Apr 4, 2012
    Posts: 89

    Benny_H
    Member

    Yeah good luck with that dirty old chevy. Haha Na just joking. Good luck brother


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  14. This tread started good... until you started talking about the SBC...
     
  15. Cap'm
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 13

    Cap'm
    Member
    from So Ute

    Here's mine. My buddy craig and I are building a banger powered roadster. Yes twice the money for one third the hp.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378031955.784719.jpg
    This is a stock, empty block. It was in a deuce one ton truck. It is a model b. we got it and a crusty but "rolling" model A frame for nothing. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378031993.268290.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378032030.434933.jpg
    Oh and another A engine and trans. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378032094.950734.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378032120.608908.jpg
    I had a glass 27 roadster body in the back yard. We are into this project cheap enough that we can spend some bucks on the power plant. The B is the holy grail of bangers and this one is unmolested. ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378031711.784998.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378031754.251573.jpg z'd the rear. Ordered a new 4 inch dropped front axle.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378032182.734974.jpg we wore out one wire wheel.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378032236.451296.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1378032272.935055.jpg just cleaning and rattle canning. I highly recommend brierlie's book. A banger project doesn't have to be expensive. Skip the overhead for now and shave some off to get a little compression in her. If ya can't add hp then add more lightness. We wanted something to putt around town in, cruise in, and run at vintage hill climbs. Look around before you drag out the checkbook.


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  16. Cap'm
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 13

    Cap'm
    Member
    from So Ute

    To me hot rodding is being creative and scrounging and not spending a fortune. Be patient. Talk it up with friends. Go to swap meets. It is car-ma when it all comes together for you.


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  17. Cap'm
    Joined: Dec 14, 2010
    Posts: 13

    Cap'm
    Member
    from So Ute

    Btw that is an iron head painted to look like aluminum. 94's on a home made manifold. I want a double overhead Hal but it is the champagne thirst on a root beer budget. Be real be patient and lament with your barber. That's what I did and he got me going in the right direction.


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  18. The basically stock build gets one Model A carburetor. The slightly warmed up one gets one Model B carburetor. The overhead gets a pair of Stromberg 97's. Check the math, I didn't just add all of the numbers together, some dropped out as the configuration progressed. Can you beat these prices, sure, but I just wanted to get the overall magnitude of the costs. Bangers are neat, just not cheap for the hp produced.

    Charlie Stephens
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  19. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,718

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    When I was a kid, and people "Z'd" a frame. It was cut at an angle so that you just layed the top part on the bottom part and welded the overlap. Then made a boxing plate and installed that. Got more contact and it looked better that the straight cut that I see more of these days.
     

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  20. A Rodder
    Joined: Jul 13, 2008
    Posts: 2,477

    A Rodder
    Member

    Rich, should it be a 45º angle or less, to provide more weld length?
     
  21. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,718

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As you point out, a sharper angle will provide more overlap. But as best as I can remember 45 was as good as any. Depends on if it's a T, A, or deuce frame. Thinner rails call for a longer cut.
     
  22. flatheadz-forever
    Joined: Jun 16, 2011
    Posts: 501

    flatheadz-forever
    Member
    from new jersey

    I guess if you like being like everyone else go with a sbc
     
  23. J scow
    Joined: Mar 3, 2010
    Posts: 489

    J scow
    Member
    from Seattle

    You can have a lot of fun for a little dough with a banger. You might not win all the races but you'll have a blast gettin there. I have a banger RPU that I have less than a grand into.
     
  24. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,718

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Actually, if you have access to a mill, and you don't mind spending some time standing in front of it, you can build a pretty neat banger without spending lots of money. For these two I had to step up for custom rods. Otherwise it uses 265 Chevy pistons and rod bearings. The Ford head was given to me. The oil pump was about $430. The Y block injection was a swap meet deal. Parts for $60. Pinto distributors. The Flathead injection I did. Lot of chips in the finned head and side cover. Reground cam, stock crank. All in all it wasn't to bad.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
  25. colinsmithson
    Joined: Jan 27, 2013
    Posts: 383

    colinsmithson
    Member

    Hi you spend the same money on a banger for 80 hp as chevy sbc 500 hp
    Mercruiser your money will be trans adaptor and cooling system
    read the mercruiser thread here
     
  26. I agree with your first statement but the trans adapter is the same as is used for a SBC. I should be available used at a reasonable swap meet price or new from the suppliers. I am using a radiator designed for a SBC with my Mercruiser (talk about overkill but the price was right).

    Charlie Stephens
     
  27. Just about anything out there can beat the HP per dollar ratio of the A/B Banger...but they can't beat the look;

    [​IMG]
     

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