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Technical Ideas on how to un-suicide my doors.

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by Do it Over, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 128

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    I'm having trouble closing my drivers door after the body has been bolted down tight. IMO much has to do with the suicide door hinges the PO installed. Think I'll expand the adjustment holes in an attempt to move the doors down. Worst case I will unbolt the hinges and attempt to fit the doors to the opening. If it fits I'll tack the door in place and rework hinges.
     

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  2. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 128

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    Anyone know where I can get a set of 1935 Ford door hinges to undo this mess?
     
  3. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 13,726

    Squablow
    Member

    I sawed apart a '36 Tudor sedan a while back and I think I have the hinges along with the door pillars and I could probably even hack chunks of the doors off if you need, that'd give you the hinges and all of the attaching points, but I'd have to dig them out and have a look.
     
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  4. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 128

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    When you can . That would be a good option for repair.
     
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  5. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 2,105

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

  6. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 9,356

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Do they shut when the body isn't bolted down tight?
     
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  7. Chacka
    Joined: Jul 31, 2018
    Posts: 4

    Chacka
    Member

    if they shut good before the body was bolted ,then you need to shim the body at the body mounts to compensate for flex
     
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  8. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,261

    clem
    Member

    Loosen the body off and start again.
     
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  9. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,261

    clem
    Member

    Quote taken from your other thread pertaining to when you had good door gaps.
     
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  10. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 128

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    I tried that. It swallowed 7/8" worth of shims at the firewall and A-pillar and that only made it a little better. What I found and removed was what was left of some floor/bracing/caked rust and crud under the A-pillar mount and rocker. It was 3/4" thick. Shimming the body off the frame that much will show in the gap above the running boards and hood. This car was a bargain for good reason. I knew I'd have to redo some of the work. My goal was to learn and gain the skills to be able to do it right the next time around on a better car. If the frame is tweaked I'll have to live with it unless someone in NYC has a good one for sale. I'll be happy to have the doors seal and look like they fit. My struggle is there is do much bad work/poor work done it's hard to know what area/areas are the real culprits or is it just an overall bad build that needs some areas cut and corrected. Hats off to you guys who've developed these skills.
     
  11. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 128

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    I dont see any evidence where the body was braced for the chop so things could have moved anywhere. I'd as also gamble that the body might not have even been secured to the frame. I'll put the hood on and check all the lines and gaps. If all thats not inline is the door then I'll start with the hinges first. If I have to reshape it I will. I'll do much better with my next street rod :)
     
  12. 296moon
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 524

    296moon
    Member
    from england

    Dont think you can anywhere with a frame that "might" be out, youll be chaseing your tail for ever...........
     
  13. choffman41
    Joined: Oct 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,292

    choffman41
    Member

    Never could understand why anyone would intentionally install suicide doors.
     
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  14. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,261

    clem
    Member

    You learn as you go, - just as we all have, - and still are.
    What I like about you is that you are sharing what is going on and thus not only helping yourself, but also others on here.

    Like others have said, maybe the frame is out, and maybe that will need attention, which might be easier than cutting the body.
     
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  15. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,261

    clem
    Member

    Easier access.
     
  16. choffman41
    Joined: Oct 30, 2012
    Posts: 2,292

    choffman41
    Member

    Never liked them on my '34 but not much choice there.
     
  17. Do it Over
    Joined: Dec 25, 2017
    Posts: 128

    Do it Over
    Member
    from NYC, NY

    Today I took the doors off the hinges to see how the door fit the hole untethered. I can get the door in. I get an uneven gap at the B-pillar , wide at the top tapering down to none at the bottom. On the hinges the door hits the roof on the front curve.

    At this point I humbly ask for advice on where to place the shims. Shiming the first two mounts dont make it. I know there's a science to this but I really need fast help in tweaking the body back to how it was. I really dont want to give in to my frustration and start cutting things I didn't have to. If I decide to keep this car I'll look into locating another frame or possible buy a new one. For the now I need to overcome this challenge so I move on to the floors, cowl, quarter and tail panel repairs.
     
  18. clem
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,261

    clem
    Member

    I am guessing that you may be in the USA, but perhaps a location in your profile might get a local Hamb member to come and have a look.
     
  19. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 539

    coilover
    Member
    from Texas

    We have to work with some really screwed up body-frame combos at times where who knows how many hacks had a go at it. Model A frames are nearly always bent, twisted, or sway back to which people have welded in mounts, brackets, cross members, etc. When stripping down and having frame done right is out of the question here is one approach that is a bandage but works. With the body off the frame do what it takes to get a proper door fit and then weld the door in place---4 or 5 good tacks front and back from door to body will do; you now have a rigid box with no openings. Use all thread to make long guide pins for mounting body to frame and lower body into position. When body makes first contact to frame and sits the way you want it STOP. Now get a measurement at each body to frame mount location and make custom blocks (steel, aluminum, rubber or wood) to exactly fit the gap at each location. bolt the body down, cut the door tacks, and pray. Often it will still take shims but you will be close enough to be in the ball park.
     
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  20. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,053

    Gearhead Graphics
    Member
    from Denver Co

    My first stop would be getting that car on a frame machine (or measuring it out) and making sure its straight. No need progressing otherwise.
    And based on those bird shit bubble gum caterpillar welds I'd not be surprised if those doors weren't in right to begin with.
    Always fun jumping in to clean up someones abandoned mess.
     
  21. adam401
    Joined: Dec 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,657

    adam401
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The body on my 34 is pretty racked. I got it close but still not square. When it's unbolted the doors either wont xlose or are stuck shut. Bolted down the doors close nicely.
    Its a little trial and error. My doors sag at the a pillar side. I shimmer the b pillar up and bolted the cowl down to the frame without shims. I then added shims to the b pillar until my body lines lined up. It alot of up and down and under the car and sweating your ads off but it's relatively straight forward.
    Even if the body needs to come back off again its worth bolting it down shimmed properly now so you can address any alignment problems before you build yourself into a corner ( which ive also done haha). Good luck
     
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  22. Chacka
    Joined: Jul 31, 2018
    Posts: 4

    Chacka
    Member

    by looking at the first pics you posted, you need to cut the pillar off the rocker. the last pic looks like somebody said fuck it, im welding it. you need to jack up the frame and make sure its level.loosen all your body mount bolts. then cut the hack welds off that corner (as well as all the other ones you can find on cowl and rocker area.). then line up the doors (make sure they open and close)and tack it in place. you may need a jack or some straps to put the body back into place. also you need good rockers before you try bolting that thing down. you have a combination of bad allignment and bad sheetmetal.
     
  23. 35WINDOW
    Joined: Jul 7, 2005
    Posts: 452

    35WINDOW
    Member

    Mac's has them, and I know Drake used to-I put new ones one my Car about 5 Years ago, and they were cast Brass (or something similar)-
    I must have bought too many as I ran across one of the halves a few weeks ago (they weren't drilled, but it looks like the Mac's ones are)-
     
  24. 35WINDOW
    Joined: Jul 7, 2005
    Posts: 452

    35WINDOW
    Member

    As for your problem, from the pictures you posted, it appeared to me that you problem starts above the beltline, so, if that's true, the issue looks to be the chop-
    If so, and if the Body fits the Frame otherwise, I would bolt the body to the Frame (you're sure the Frame is square correct?), and decide what looks better (looks to be a crap shoot either way, but, is the chop itself (without the Doors) square? (measure the Door openings for square and height)- if everything looks good to the eye (side to side and overall (study it from all sides), I'd cut the old chop off the Doors, put new hinges in it, and fit the left over pieces to the Door opening (the least work)-I mean shimming the Doors to the Frame was with Factory Door Hinges in place-

    I may still have a few Door pieces left from my chop-
    As someone said earlier, these Cars weren't perfect to begin with- you have to decide how much time & effort you're willing to put into this (I spent 3 months+ on mine)-

    And remember what Von Dutch said-"they don't look at both sides at the same time anyway" (not that all of his work would be a model here)-
     
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