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Ideas brewing..1940 buick frame

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by handmedown40limited, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. QCMC
    Joined: Feb 12, 2010
    Posts: 7

    QCMC
    Member

    Understandable that you want to build a resto-rod but why do it with a full CCCA classic which is original and has a documented history? Why don't you sell the Buick and get a less desirable car?
     
  2. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    the value of the car is not of concern to me. I want to have my kids ride in it. Its to pass down as I already stated its a heirloom more then anything but I want it to be driven. It will be something my son learn to build and drive in. Ccca or not doesn't matter. Sorry if this is upsetting people about the car. Go tell the guy on eBay who is parting one out how special his car is.

    I don't plan on destroying it at all. Maybe I can find another stock chassis and use it to ad the suspension to and then swap chassis and take all extra parts from the "new" frame and give me extra useable parts when I do restore mine.

    just another way to look at it.
     
  3. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    also what kind of value is a ccca make it. there was on Craigslist but a 90 series ,even bigger and he kept dropping the price. Think he got to 2k complete minus motor.
     
  4. Okay, time to step back and think this through again.

    Either you care about the originality/value of the car or you dont.

    If you don't care, then there's no reason not to cut up the stock frame.

    No matter what you choose to do it will take time, labor, and some engineering on your part.

    I understand you want to take the easy way out, the lazy way out, and just switch from frame to frame - but for the second time, that's an illusion. It is not easier, it is not faster, and it is not cheaper to do what you want to do here. I know that's difficult to concieve, but unless you're a professional car builder with a big shop, a team of people and all kinds of equipment, it's not going to happen in five days like on Overhaulin' especially when you want to build parts from scratch.

    Take it from someone who's tried it before.


    If I were to do one of these Buicks I'd clip the front end and I'd use something like an 80s GM fullsize or midsize that I could cut the rear suspension and mounts out of the frame. and use those too, weld in the mounts and crossmembers as needed. Done and done, and be driving the car sometime this Century.
     
  5. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    ok I want to keep the original frame intact its has sat under the car for 73 years.

    with that said I don't want to butcher it up either. I could build something that will comply bolt to stock locations. I have most of that project designed already, but stepped back to look at other options. Everything is slowly getting drawn in solid works. I am not a suspension guru at all, just learning.


    I am considering jag because vehicle weight is similar to a xj12. Motor placement over front suspension is visually close. Motor weight is close. I understand the Ackerman change with the longer wheel base. I would likely scrub in a parking lot. The hub to hub measurements are also very close.

    the jag suspension was designed for a heavy car with a very heavy engine. And handled very well.

    I don't want a slot car but something I won't be afraid of driving at 75 mph. In local bay area traffic.

    power disc brakes on all 4 corners , power rack. And a nice geometry to boot and I have found them for $400, sure they may need to be gone thru.

    i am already turning new pulleys for the 320 to run std v belt not the 5\8 wide ones and will be adding a power steering pump and convert to alternator and 12v.

    plan on running hydroboost for the brakes under the floor in the original location. So there is more then just suspension mods to the frame and yes i believe i can design and build a frame for this car. It isn't going to take 5 days never ever expected that. It was take 5 years. Fine by me. The car isn't going anywhere.

    sorry this has kinda turned into a shit throw. I was just looking at pointers from people that have built frames for large vehicles.


    I will look at my notes and post my finding and compare them. I want the ability to pur it back to stock if i do choose when i get older
     
  6. davidbistolas
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 962

    davidbistolas
    Member

    You're for some reason under the impression that a hand-made frame will be cheaper and safer than restoring the factory one- and I don't know that I agree. I would start investigating what it would take to restore / upgrade functionality - fix the factory suspension, maybe upgrade the brakes.

    If you blow this car apart, will it be handed down to the 5th generation in boxes?

    HAMB: what are his other real options? Suspension kit, brake kits etc? If you had this car, what would you do?
     
  7. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    I can make my own disc brake upgrade. I can turn a new set of hubs to run say 12 in gm big car rotors impala etc but use my spindle. And make a bracket that bolt to the current king pin and run whatever caliper is a good choice. I have considered this also.
    I am a machinist and run 5 cnc mills and 2 cnc lathes.

    I could make my own suspension that bolts into facotory locations. This would be pretty trick.

    build my own frame- large project

    restore my stock chassis completely

    find another stock chassis to mod/ clip

    last option.
    leave the car sitting for another 10-15 years till my kids are out of school and house and maybe have more money/ time to restore 100% original
     
  8. Nitrobaron
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 65

    Nitrobaron
    Member

    Here's my 2 Cents:

    Build a new frame like you want.

    You have a dimensioned drawing and the complete car on hand to take measurements from. I think you have a sound plan thought out in your head for updated suspension etc, and you feel you have the ability to build it. Sounds like you can model the whole thing is Solid Works before you even start cutting metal. Guys on here are building frames every week for something or other, I don't understand why the hate on this one????

    The worst you have to loose is a few hundred $$$$ of steel tube, channel, and plate plus your time if it doesn't work out.

    With that said, DO NOT take the car apart until the new frame is ready for the body to be transferred. That way you preserve the car and do not end up with boxes full of parts and a ruined car because the frame project bombed.

    Doing the new frame will let you preserve the car in one piece while the build progresses. In 10 or 15 years the value of that car may take front seat to your emotional feelings for it when those boys need to finish college and money is tight.

    Start that frame and keep us updated with a build thread and show everyone it can be done.
     
  9. alsancle
    Joined: Nov 30, 2005
    Posts: 1,558

    alsancle
    Member

    Although not valuable to anyone but you, that car is a family heirloom and should be treated as gently as possible. I think any cutting torch work would be a mistake.
     
  10. Nitrobaron
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 65

    Nitrobaron
    Member

    Look at this thread for inspiration. May be a good way to build all those curves into your frame too. Pictures start about page 5.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=775069

    Oh yea, this guy got a lot of shit from the crowd here too until he started showing what he could do! Read the whole thread, you won't feel so bad about some of the "advice" you have been given. Start cutting steel.
     
  11. 33sporttruck
    Joined: Jun 5, 2012
    Posts: 532

    33sporttruck
    Member

    Looking at your Post #37 is good news for the Buick. Years ago I helped a friend with a 40 Oldsmobile Coupe. The thoughts were to use as much of the original chassis and suspension as possible.
    76 Olds Cutlass rotors and calipers were obtained from a hot rod friendly junk yard. Parts (along with the original front spindles) were delivered to a machinist to have the magic done. The machinist turned the spindles to Cutlass Specs and milled a one piece caliper bracket to fit the original spindles. A front suspension kit (rebuild kit) was ordered from Kanter Auto. Everything went back to its original mounting points.
    With regard to the rear axle, a 10-bolt GM (Cutlass) replaced the original 40 axle. A cross member was the adde to allow use of late model tube shocks in the rear.
    The car rode and drove quite well and is still on the road. It appeared on e-Bay just a few months ago.
    Your original Buick suspension was and still is Light Years ahead of the similar Chevrolet, Oldsmobile, and Pontiac Components.
    Building in this manor you would be retaining the original Frame and Suspension Components and at the same time raise the standard of safety and durability.
    The modifications mentioned above will put you on the road faster, safer and since you are a Machinist probably much cheaper. Good Luck, Jeff
     
  12. 1pickup
    Joined: Feb 20, 2011
    Posts: 846

    1pickup
    Member

    "i kinda wish it was a smaller model"
    that's do-able. remove rear doors, slide rear of body forward. put on smaller home-built frame. chop top. install 455 Buick & automatic. done. easy.
    seriously, if you think it's worth anything, then restore it to original, or sell it to someone who thinks likewise. if you want to drive it more than just around town, add later suspension to original frame, & a later drivetrain. having an old car that you can't take anywhere, is a waste.
     
  13. Do yourself a favor and take some time and look at Steve's (Industrial Chassis) website and postings here - he's got plenty of great ideas that you can consider for chassis fabrication. His approach is generally CAD-driven and multi-piece fabrication with exceptional results.
     
  14. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    i say that because it would be a ccca car and maybe not get so much attention. but as stated i dont was to hack anything up and i know with age i will want to "restore it" but for now i was to drive it. i am only 29.

    the 320 in it is hopped up. will be dropping a 5 speed in and will have to change rear end anyways. it easier in my mind to store the whole chassis complete then in pieces.
     
  15. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    Well just happens someone listed a 40 buick limited on ebay yesterday. currently at $200 but 5 days left. I will be watching it. Its a 5-6 hour drive away. But with the help of my brother(truck) and brother in law(20 ft car trailer) it may be possible.

    mine looks to be in better shape and i could use the extra chassis to do what i want with and have a complete extra front end sitting around, like i said i want to drive it and accidents happen.

    also has a 320 i can use as mock up for the tranny adapter i have to make and the head will work for a fixture to make my intake and exhause. So if I can swing it, this would set all my current projects straight. i did nt want to pull my 320 apart to mock up the headers and intake since it runs. but since i "could" have a couple mock up car that would work well.

    lets see how this auction goes
     
  16. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    well auction ended early. Went and took some measurements and pictures hard to crawl around ender the car currently. I may stick with remaking the front suspension. But there is more rot then I thought and probably would pull body anyways sooner or later to clean up the original chassis
     
  17. Mine's sat over dirt for 30-40 years and the chassis is fine. Rot?
     
  18. drptop70ss
    Joined: May 31, 2010
    Posts: 1,141

    drptop70ss
    Member
    from NY

    LOL your dirt is different than mine. Picked up a 47 cad that sat in the dirt for a long time, front lower control arms were rotted right out of the crossmember. Buick frames are a similar design and have the same problem areas

    Like I said I have a complete 41 century front clip here, if you need a section I can cut it out as long as it is not too big or heavy for fedex.
     
  19. I sincerely doubt it, the car's been a New York car for all it's life. It came out of a grassy field when I got it and it's been on one the whole time I've had it.

    The tin part of the right A-arm finally rotted enough to let the spring through, but nothing else is coming off it.

    It's highly unlikely anyone on the west coast is going to pay to have something as big and heavy as a front frame clip shipped from New York, though.
     
  20. el Scotto
    Joined: Mar 3, 2004
    Posts: 4,183

    el Scotto
    Member
    from Tracy, CA

    I say turn it into a burning man car with a bunch of stinky hippy chicks on ecstasy. Then call me up and invite me over. :D
     
  21. handmedown40limited
    Joined: Mar 28, 2011
    Posts: 204

    handmedown40limited
    Member
    from tracy ca

    yea not happening Scott.

    okay so I didn't have time to post pictures today from work. So my frame rails measure 8 inches tall along the long run in the center of the chassis and at the "x" crossmember it is over 13 inches tall.

    the frame is very very large. The cross member for the panhard bar looks to be about 4 inches square. Everything is large. One good note is the wood between body and frame is still in good shape so I will be able to make good copies when I need them
     

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