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Technical ID a Small Block Ford

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Xman, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
    Member

    I picked up a small block Ford motor that I have no idea what it is. There are no numbers or castings on the block anywhere. The water pump bolt holes are close to the deck so I understand it has to be a 289 / 302. I want to sell it and the C4, so I need to know what it is so I can advertise it correctly. The search I did here, didn't help.
    any help appreciated Dan
     
    King ford likes this.
  2. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,191

    Speed Gems
    Member

    I know the guys on here are good but without a picture it's kinda hard too tell what were looking at.
     
    squirrel likes this.
  3. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 42,728

    squirrel
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    Three or four bolts holding the lower pulley to the damper? Did you remove the starter or valve covers when you were searching for numbers?

    Sent from my Trimline
     
  4. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
    Member

    Three bolts on the pully. Starter is off not the valve covers. I'll load up a picture tomorrow if that helps.
     
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  5. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 1,772

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    The Elephant in the room is the lack of casting numbers. All Fords I have seen.....10s-90s had some type of casting number.....something.
    I have not seen them all but this seems a little unusual.

    Is it grease covered?

    If all else fails you can pull the head and measure the bore and stroke.
    I wonder if this could be a Mexican or aftermarket block?
    Other things to consider.....
    Teeth on the flywheel.
    Damper size as squirrel mentioned.
    Part numbers off of damper and flexplate.

    Try looking again. They may be covered up with dirt a lot goop.....hard to see.
     
  6. A few basics....

    The block casting numbers should be above the starter next to the pan rail. You'll have to pull the starter if it's attached to see them.

    If the bellhousing-to-block bolts are 3/8-16, it's a '62-64 five bolt. Two freeze plugs per side, it's a 221. The C4 was only used with the 289, it it's an OEM set that's what you have. The '65-up blocks used 7/16-14 bolts to attach the bell.

    Three bolt crank pulley, '62-69. '70-up is four bolt (unless you run into a marine damper).

    The 289 was discontinued in '68, anything newer is a 302 unless you run into a '80-82 255. These have a small bore (3.68") and small oval intake ports in the heads.

    '68/some '69 302 blocks have '302' cast in the lifter valley and on the heads. This doesn't guarantee it's a 302...
     
  7. Oldioron
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 723

    Oldioron
    Member

    If I five bolt bellhousing it could be a 260 also.
     
  8. It could...

    The 260 was used into the '65 model year, the only five bolt motor that was. When Ford made the switch, they literally got rid of most of the five-bolt motors. The leftover 289s were given to tech schools and high school auto programs. Apparently Ford had too many 260s left over to give away, so these were offered on the Mustang and Falcon at the start of the model year but just until they were gone; by January they were gone from the option list.

    This is why those dual-pattern six-bolt bellhousings and trans that turn up from time to time exist. Because Ford ditched all of the five-bolt stuff from their inventory, in case of warranty replacement they needed an easy way to install the later motor to the earlier trans or the late trans to the early motor. Otherwise they would have to replace both as a unit.
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  9. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 4,056

    sunbeam
    Member

    If its a 5 bolt and orginal, the plate under the carburator on the back side where the vacuum port is there are 2 circles one sez top the other sez 221,260 or 289
     
  10. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
    Member

    The block is clean, no grease or dirt and no cast or stamped numbers anywhere. The bolts for the bellhousing are 7/16. I pulled a valve cove and the only markings were cast in GT40P and what appeared to be 3A19. Could it be some kind of factory replacement block. It came in a 68 Mustang fastback I just bought and did not come in the car originally.
    If you guys can't figure this out I don't know who ca.
     
  11. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
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  12. RmK57
    Joined: Dec 31, 2008
    Posts: 918

    RmK57
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  13. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 2,119

    Budget36
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    I'd say 1,000,000 dollars...then again...I like a SBC...
     
  14. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
    Member

    Thanks RmK57 very good info
     
  15. Good chance that's a fairly recent factory 'crate' long block. It's a late block as it's lacking the boss for the clutch pivot, and I'll bet it's a roller block to boot although you'll have to pull the intake to confirm that. Also very likely a 50 oz balance, so if it had a C4 hooked to it that's a 'special' flex plate. You've got a mix of parts there; carbureted 5.0 Mustang valve covers, '64-65 timing cover/water pump.

    There should be a part # on the front damper (behind the pulley), that should help narrow it down.
     
  16. Crocodile
    Joined: Jun 16, 2016
    Posts: 119

    Crocodile
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    3T40P is the heads that commonly came on 5.0 Explorers.They are supposed to be good performers, but a bit tricky to find headers for,
     
  17. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
    Member

    Just removed the pulley. Reads C54? can't read the last number. That help?
     
  18. That's probably C5AE, and with a 3-bolt pulley that should rule out it being a 50 oz balance. At this point, it looks like this motor may have been assembled from various parts and isn't a crate motor or even a stock combination. Some rebuilders use whatever's handy, or it may have been an owner who scrounged parts to assemble it. Why there's no casting numbers on the block is a mystery, somebody must have ground them off. I'm starting to think somebody ground them off to conceal just what it is.

    The clutch pivot disappeared off the blocks in '75, so yours is at least that new. The next major change was a one-piece rear seal in '83 (which will be obvious), and finally roller cam blocks appeared across the full line in '86, but you'll have to pull the intake to verify that.

    So just what it is is hard to say; it could be a 289 or 302 if it was a running motor. Was it a running motor? It wouldn't be the first time someone swapped a 50 oz motor into an pre-'80 car (which is when the balance changed) and tried using the existing 28 oz damper/flywheel. It'll vibrate enough to loosen your fillings... That may be why it was out of the car...

    The only way to pin this down is to look at the crankshaft. If it's a 289, you'll find a 1M or 1MA on the front counterweight. The 302 will have 2M or 2MA, same place. Both are 28 oz balance, which matches the damper you have. Don't find either, then it's a '80 or newer 302 with the 50 oz balance and you have the wrong damper and probably the wrong flexplate.

    There are aftermarket bits that will allow installing the 50 oz motor in the earlier cars, just no OEM parts. Ford did make a 50 oz three-bolt damper for marine use, but it needs a bit of machine work for the car pulley to fit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
    Hnstray likes this.
  19. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 419

    Xman
    Member

    All good info, thanks Steve. See you at the Goodguys.
     

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