The Jalopy Journal
Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Youngster51, May 5, 2020.
I see what you mean. Maybe one of the reasons it placed 2nd at Oakland!!
Bringing Race which involved purpose over finesse there could certainly be points lost...makes one think about how the Hood opened...perhaps lift off...Judging criteria was already in early stages of evolution quickly evolving into the 60s where the points given in classes knocked Hotrod/Race even further apart...interesting variables indeed...and that all said there were many who set the bar pretty high in Hotrod/Race and considered those details and all the others...
@Youngster51 it is admirable your digging into the past excellence this roadster has been thru and like Kookie you have several period choices for resurrection...Getting away from Mustangs is commendable. It is interesting the life of a Period Hotrod even in its period owners hands what can happen...so many variables and potential outcomes but your putting the evolutionary crawl to an Abrupt Halt...Big Thumbs Up from me...I look forward to your moves going forward and that bent spring is something I've seen on Period racers as well...the saving of the period pieces is a thing we discuss when modding older hotrods here on occasion and here's an example of this...literally...
A big thumbs up to those in the know offering plausible connecting dots...very cool to witness...
The way the frame sit outside the body and engine compartment is the same. Also you may want to see if there is a hairpin mount on the body in this area.
.. alot of misquoted modifications then .. hurriedly printed in whatever magazine of note. A great deal of scribes liked what they saw .. but didn't accurately describe what they were looking at.
Maybe some pencil in hand .. was told the body was narrowed in relation to what makes a track roadster a track roadster ---> TRACK NOSE.
Anyway .. I dunno' sh*t .. but I can compare consistency like everyone. Counting button holes, noting body mods' still here .. & more than anything .. enjoy everyone else .. doing the same.
Pretty damn cool .. pulling the covers back.
I like T’s and especially track T’s.
With that much lead, so much for the switching to the older bay to save weight theory.
Maybe a bit OT but I wonder which track they were referring to as Contra Costa. By the time I got there there were dirt tracks in Richmond, Pacheco, Antioch, and Possibly Danville/San Ramon. Antioch has the county fair grounds but Richmond is more connected with the East Bay. There was a dirt 1/4 midget track in Martinez that may have been part of a larger track. There was a lot of racing in the area that felt like it all rolled into one large group of guys that involved a lot of shops, service stations and wrecking yards. It was normal to see some type race car in garages and driveways in all towns throughout the county sometimes several to a block.
I’ll check that out. The frame does look very similar with the belly pan. If you look at your picture on the frame there is the original front body mount and it matches up where the body would be right above the hairpin like the number 2 car.
I was looking for more similarities with my body to match up and saw that the crash bar goes thru the panel below the turtle deck. Sure Enough there is a patched hole right where the crash bar would have been. Then along the bottom edge of that panel is a bracket that has been cut off I believe it’s the tab that held the exhaust pipe in place. I can’t get a good photo of it with the frame up against it I felt it with my hand. I’ll see if I can jack it up and get a good photo.
With all the similarities stacking up how do I prove that my roadster is the number 2 roadster 100 percent with out a doubt if possible? My new plan if I can prove the car 100 percent is to restore it completely to the 1950 Oakland show version and maybe try for the AMBR again with it. It tried to win the AMBR in 1950 and 1974 As the Valdez T maybe third time it could take it.
I would start by removing the body and very carefully stripping all of the paint and plastic body filler off of it, then I'd clearly mark the snap holes and take pictures of the bare body at the exact same angles as the existing pictures from 1950. The photos can be overlayed, if the holes line up perfectly with the original snaps, that's a big deal.
Also it would be nice to know the condition of the rest of the door reveals, if they're all hammered flatter than stock that'd be a better indication that they were smoothed over at one time and possibly just re-sculpted out of body filler for the later paintjob.
The bare body photo-on-photo overlays would also help to see how well the patches line up for the crash bars.
Every available picture from every angle of the original car need to be catalogued for comparison shots. Scaling can be used with a known measurement to see if the original really was narrowed through the body or not. Take the width of a known quantity from a photograph, then scale the rest of the photo to determine the width between the windshield posts. That would also be a big help.
Computers/photoshop are going to be the key. I look forward to seeing more.
If the bottoms of the door reveals are crisp and not flattened like the top, that would point to at least the sides of the body not being on the original car. A lot of pick-hammer work on the back sides of the reveals would show attempts to re-shape them before the second paintjob.
@Youngster51 congrats again, if you could take a pic of your Roadster Side as close as you can to this vintage pic angle above we can do a pretty accurate overlay as alluded with minimal distortion and even in my stretched but interesting digital inspiration it has some connecting dots but I'd like a more accurate overlay. The pic angle I used was pretty off angle wise...Even the Wild Flames overlaid on the vintage Metal Canvas of 1950 look incredibly interesting especially since they were laid in when the 60s, 70's...Thats inspired....but your suggestion of 1950s livery is very admirable...can't wait to see it on the Road...
Credit to Photographer, Owner
I agree, It will likely come down to photo comparison of old and new pictures from the same angles. The snap holes and mounts will be key. Figuring out if the body was narrowed should be easy. Getting the exact angle may not be. The family connections are strong evidence. More family history might help, photos, diary, stories, neighbors, old friends. Just the memory of one neighbor kid who may have helped sand, fill holes, watched lead being melted out, or scored some of the old upholstery to line his wagon or cover his bike seat. Get what is left of the family to help it is their history you are memorializing. How cool for them to learn that the two famous cars in their past are really one.
I don’t have much room Around the car to get a shot father away. Here is a couple I got and with marked holes along the tape.
The strongest connection I have right now is the second painter for the original owner who painted the flame paint. He was friends with Valdez and his son. He said that Valdez gave him a few old track roadster photos and old magazines to hang in his shop in the 70’s. He is trying to locate them right now. There’s not many family members left from the Neves family I have sent messages to a couple of who I believe is his grandchildren with no response yet.
@Youngster51 thanks for those images I will get on that...give me a hour or so.
Thanks I really appreciate it
@youngster31 this what I've come up with and while I've done my best it's closer but still with conflicts in angle with the images with distortion...that would give me some pause still. Perhaps you can take a few more shots paying attention to the wheels and cowl angle to the original show pic. While this is awkward and somewhat tedious (you can pm me to lessen adding pics if you like)...I do believe it's certainly the lower tape line that matches to the show pic. I blackened your hole positions to help visual...you can see the snaps being the lighter spots...Some are right on or very close...I wonder how much a Higher resolution Show Pic would be from the Revs institute? From what I remember they are quite well scanned.
Wow thank you. It is hard to get a good shot of the car at the right angle Right now I pulled it out of the corner so there’s only a couple feet around the car. I’ll try and pull the car completely out this weekend.
the tap line follows the holes exactly but some of my sharpie marks on the tap line are beside the holes as I could not find the hole dead on till I realized to just shine a flash light thru them from the back side. Coming down that curve from the back of the tub looks like there in the same location as the snap holes on the Number 2 car. Really exciting.
Did you send pictures of the car/cars to the grandchildren? A little spark might kindle interest. Maybe there are some latent motor head genes that will come out. Most people have some interest in their family history. A picture of Grandpa in his race car is powerful.
The picture overlays are promising.
That is THE coolest hot rod for my month.
I did include photos of the cars in my messages. there’s only 2 grandchildren left it looks like there parents passed away in the early 2000’s. Both grandchildren are female in their 40’s. Looks like one might be in prison at the moment now I found out while searching more earlier today.
This is all good, I'm in no major rush, another possible consideration is using the other 3/4 shot from the driverside using the same technique. The less I have to distort the more accurate the process is.
I am trying to locate that Show pic at the Revs site. It seems around 40 bucks for I would suspect a pretty good resolution copy and if this is the Hotrod I sure as heck would want one for provenance... Keep up with the other notable clues as well...It's hard to believe that icon may be hidden in the layers of change...just wild...
Here's the Revs Institute Address...Huge interesting array of History but navigating can be time consuming...
Not stirring any pots....just ran across a picture of a similar car - think this was at an early No. Cal show from 1950 so might be a stretch.......it's the 61 car.....
Too bad the family leads are running out but it only takes one memory or old box of pictures. You seem to be doing all you can. We're pulling for you.
Where did Valdez live? Did he belong to a club. It is possible that other builders or painters in the area might know something. They all knew each other. East Bat Rods was active club with well known builders and cars.
Stockton Spitfire was a very successful car. This picture shows the final version that Sam Hawks drove. Was unusual because of the Chrysler 6 252ci. I believe the lower half of this body is pruned. If you compare it to the Neves car which appears to be taller.
Thanks for sharing this adve true in history! Hot Rod forensics.
Some times looks matter more, even in racing the Roaring Roadsters and that extra jetting and carb adjustment will take care of the extra weight ...
These Turtle Deck Ts are pretty all over the place in looks in Hotrod as You look at the 70s Wild Thing it's easy to see how one would never imagine it's Roundy Round past and it's potential 1950 Shiny Session...
Valdez lived in Oakland off of Holly and 92nd street. I can’t find any history of him in a local club but he was a member of the ISCA during the 70’s. I’ve searched all the businesses from the original show sign and there all out of business and the owners have passed.
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