Register now to get rid of these ads!

History I think I found Larry Neves #2 track roadster

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Youngster51, May 5, 2020.

  1. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    45A7509B-877C-49D6-9A1B-DD8F11B3D3DC.png

    The original blue fade paint job was still under the interior along the top rails and maybe purple under that
     
  2. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    Looks like there is two sets of holes. There’s is loads of bondo. Lots of brazing and signs of lead.



    CCF1614D-DFAE-4783-A3B7-91571A731C7C.jpeg

    B6B30990-6277-46E1-A5D3-ADE0B319661B.jpeg
     
  3. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    Got the cowl down didn’t see any holes till I stuck my hand up under the dash rail and sure enough there was bondo coming thru poked them out with a screw driver and it sure looks like a V.




    0B14EC45-778B-448F-9302-B1B7611D5D8F.jpeg


    72AC81FF-2D29-4996-B0C6-F087977E897E.jpeg
     
  4. [​IMG]

    I just found this is a bunch of stuff I forgot I had, Nov. 1959 issue of Car Craft
    With an article on the Cooks Machine (Cyclone) conversion of the banjo to use drive flanges (safety hubs)
    It uses double spline axles, drive flanges, and threading the end of the stock Ford bearing race.

    This is very similar too what modern oval track including NASCAR Cup car do.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Red box double spline axle vs Ford

    Yellow boxes drive flanges

    Pink Box (enough giggling) threading the end of the stock Ford bearing race
    [​IMG]


    Very similar to modern race parts-

    Modern 9" Grand National Floater
    Note double spline axle & drive flanges[​IMG]


    Modern Short Track G.N style Quick Change
    [​IMG]
    Modern Short Track Wide 5 Quick Change, Yes still the same Wide 5 as 36-39 Ford![​IMG]
     
  5. Six Ball
    Joined: Oct 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,395

    Six Ball
    Member
    from Nevada

    This is like hot rod archeology ! The HAMB.s own Oak Island. Keep digging'.
     
    catdad49, 29bowtie, Stogy and 4 others like this.
  6. @Cyclone Kevin

    .. speaking of hot rod archaeologists .. especially revered Cooks Machine. Hi Kevin !!! :)
     
  7. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 3,983

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    Great Posts! Thx KC ;). We still cast these hubs & I’m sure that with enough prodding I could get CMW’s to turn some threads on some Axle Ends, the splines are a natural for them. I’d love to get a scan of that article.
    Thx,
    CK.
     
  8. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.





    that’s great info thank you. Mine must be an earlier version the axle is not double splined the second flange is welded to the axle and hub.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  9. Marty Strode
    Joined: Apr 28, 2011
    Posts: 5,013

    Marty Strode
    Member

    I have been watching this with interest, You and Pat have been doing some great detective work, and Don Radbruch's Roaring Roadsters book, is a precious reference. Don was a great guy, and a friend. After thanking him for doing the book, I repaid the favor by putting him in my Roadster at a vintage race on dirt @ Willamette Speedway. BTW what is the wheelbase on your car ? An old friend of mine, built a 27 in '47, and totally rebuilt the car in '48 with the early body. That was probably common, due to the difference in body weight. Gillis 3.jpg Gillis '49.jpg
     
    HEMI32, catdad49, alfin32 and 11 others like this.
  10. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.



    thank you and that is awesome his books are very detailed great history of early racing days. I got a rough measurement of wheelbase from center Of rear backing plate to the front kingpin is 96 inch.
     
  11. Very cool thread. Thanks for sharing.
     
    Stogy and loudbang like this.
  12. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 4,446

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Fantastic! This is what it’s all about. Not sure very many folks could have connected these dots, well done!
     
  13. thunderbirdesq
    Joined: Feb 15, 2006
    Posts: 6,850

    thunderbirdesq
    Member

    Man this is so rad!
     
    Stogy, loudbang, Thor1 and 1 other person like this.
  14. SuperFleye
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 2,033

    SuperFleye
    Alliance Vendor

    Great detective work Austin. I have a really good feeling about this. The similarities and the family bonds between Neves, Pacheco, and Valdez :)
     
  15. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 14,462

    Squablow
    Member

    This is really great, certainly appears to be the same car. And second place AMBR in 1950 is a real piece of history. Would be great to see it restored back to it's track roadster configuration, preserving as much of the original car as possible.

    Sounds like it's in the right hands too, damn near became a parts car for a rearend! That would have been an awful shame.
     
  16. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    I’m not the best taper but I went from hole to hole with some masking tape to give an idea. There is two sets of holes that line up. There is aV front and rear I don’t have any photos of the rear of the number 2 roadster yet to match up but the front sure looks like a dead on match.


    A3804AA3-698B-46A6-A919-617E7CAD32F0.jpeg

    DDD74571-450A-429D-90ED-9EA0B2E3D6E0.jpeg

    BC242EE8-CDE4-4CBB-8397-846447AB6BC1.jpeg
     
  17. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 166

    Pat
    Member

    I found a couple more. 20FEABAC-0BBF-4937-B2DC-E9D548FDC4BF.jpeg CEAA2C89-3152-44A6-B09A-57CB45DB11F0.jpeg
     
    Weeks46, catdad49, 29bowtie and 8 others like this.
  18. missysdad1
    Joined: Dec 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,941

    missysdad1
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    This is the most exciting "find" I can remember in recent history. It's amazing that this car has survived to be found and hopefully returned to the condition I best remember it in.

    [​IMG]
     
    catdad49, 29bowtie, alfin32 and 7 others like this.
  19. SuperFleye
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 2,033

    SuperFleye
    Alliance Vendor

    OK. So I spent the morning going through this thread again, looking at photos of the Neves roadster, the Valdez roadster, and also the different roadsters that Pacheco ran.

    I hope I'm not a party pooper here now, but what really strikes me is that Larry shrunk the door reveals out of his body for a smooth finish on both sides:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The Valdez Roadster, and Austin's car have these reveals:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    When we were researching the Neves roadster a couple of years ago, my buddy Richard Noble also told me that he believes the body of the Neves roadster was narrowed...

    Those two things make me think that it is not the lost Larry Neves Roadster:
    https://kustomrama.com/wiki/Larry_Neves'_1924_Ford

    If Blondie Pacheco was related to Joe Valdez's wife, there is a chance still that it might be one of his old roadsters, so you should really dig into that connection and try to confirm this. Also, for all we know, it could be the chassis from the Neves car with another body...the hunt continues ;)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2020
    catdad49, Stogy, alfin32 and 4 others like this.
  20. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    Hey no problem my thought on the smooth doors was that they were leaded over. the door reveal on my roadster is hammered flatter then stock and signs of lead on both sides of the line kind of like a “cave and pave”. The reveals look normal with paint because it is built up with bondo and sculpted.

    I also read a caption that mentioned it was narrowed but I measured my firewall to the measurements of a flathead with stock heads and there’s only a 1/2” clearance. Looking at the pictures of the number 2 car the hood is smooth on both sides if it was narrowed a flathead wouldn’t fit inside the firewall. Also the turtle deck seems to be stock width and length with the body still having wide curves to meet up with on the side of the car.
     
  21. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    If the door reveals were removed that would be taking almost a foot out of the body. Looking at the number 2 roadster there is a longer straight line along the top of the tub going from the cowl till it sweeps up to curve around the tub. If the door reveals were removed the curve would come more abruptly from the cowl to the rear of the tub.
     
  22. You can barely fit a V8 under an early T cowl, narrow it and you would have some big arse blisters. At this stage with more details matching to the Neves car than not I feel the door reveals were leaded originally. The lead would have been melted out when rebuilt as the Valdez Bucket @YOUNGSTER51. It is too much of a coincidence with the way the snap holes in the cowl top match for it not to be the Neves roadster.
     
    HEMI32, catdad49, Tman and 7 others like this.
  23. guitarguy
    Joined: May 26, 2008
    Posts: 397

    guitarguy
    Member

    @Youngster51 Do you need me to measure a stock T cowl / firewall width? I have a '24 body I am trying to restructure the wood in.
     
  24. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.


    no it’s ok I got some measurements thank you
     
  25. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.



    I was thinking the same thing. The body looks stock width and length wise. There is a lot of traces of lead On the body the doors had to be filled at some point would explain the reveal lines being hammered flat.
     
  26. SuperFleye
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 2,033

    SuperFleye
    Alliance Vendor

    I'm not talking about a Hemi engine here. I have been told that it was common back in the days to take out 2 inches for less wind resistance. I checked some old notes and the low hood 1923 cowl that Neves has supposedly measures 24 3/8 inches. The flathead Ford I have been told measures 20 1/4" at the widest point, leaving 1 inch of clearance on either side. I guess someone with access to a cowl and engine can verify this. As I mentioned, we believe Neves body was narrowed, but we have not been able to verify this.

    The snap holes are absolutely interesting, and some fine photoshop work should be able to match em up well if he has the right angle. But the V was also common, just look at the car behind Larry's roadster in this photo:

    [​IMG]
     
  27. SuperFleye
    Joined: Jul 17, 2005
    Posts: 2,033

    SuperFleye
    Alliance Vendor

    Below is a low hood cowl firewall. One original on top, and one that I converted from inches to pixels and took 2 inches out. By taking 2 inches out of the body, you made the T hood look nice and round, removing most of the flat spot in the middle. If you look at Neves roadster his hood looks round with almost no flat spot in the middle. Am I the only one believing that the Neves roadster had a narrowed body?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  28. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.



    the hood on the Larry Neves car in this photo you can tell fit the car Very poorly and overlapped the cowl Top and sides.

    DAE68C0B-68D2-4977-9BEC-2D45521C03EC.png
     
  29. Pat
    Joined: Jan 6, 2002
    Posts: 166

    Pat
    Member

    I’m not sure on rules regarding narrowing body’s on track roadsters. Was it legal? I know in the SCTA by this time you could not modify a roadster body. Fred “Spade”Carrillo’s T comes to mind. I think it would’ve moved you from modified roadster to streamliner class. On my ‘29 I got a little more curve in my cowl by jacking slightly more arch in it with the firewall removed. This helped with my Hood transition between my cowl and tracknose.
     
    catdad49, loudbang, Stogy and 3 others like this.
  30. Youngster51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2014
    Posts: 252

    Youngster51
    Member
    from Fresno ca.

    You can see in this side shot photo that the hood over laps the cowl on top and sides to make it a smoother transition. I’m guessing because the nose didnt follow the same shape.


    4818177D-9864-46F1-8FA2-E517232E1D2F.png
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.