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Projects I think I F'ed up .....

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by baspinall, Jun 30, 2018.

  1. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    So a couple years ago when I started rushing into a project I welded in these P&J ladder bars on the rear. Flash forward to today and I am getting back to this project. While figuring out my sub rails on the frame I noticed that the rear of my ladder bars are higher than frame level by about a half inch. The rear angle is correct. That being said, can I get away with leaving them like this? I plan on using the original subrails with wood blocks. That will clear the ladder bars but I'm not sure how much they will move up and down.
     

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  2. metalman
    Joined: Dec 30, 2006
    Posts: 3,284

    metalman
    Member

    That's a heavy Z you have going. When you lower a car that much gotta expect changes to the floor, ect if you still want suspension travel. I've been around cars lowered till the have an inch or less travel, they suck to ride in, more so the older I get.
     
  3. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    The Z is 8 inches. So in your opinion am I all right or are you saying I would need to block the subrails even higher off the frame than the wood blocks?
     
  4. 325w
    Joined: Feb 18, 2008
    Posts: 5,653

    325w
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Lots a drop! I thinking if you start raising the body by shims it might start looking like you raised the body with shims. Only asking but could you put a little kink in the top ladder to give you some room? In my opinion if I needed to raise the body I'd make runner for the top of the frame so you don't see gaps from the side. Like the filler when doing a 29 on a 32 frame.
     

  5. Mr T body
    Joined: Nov 2, 2005
    Posts: 2,194

    Mr T body
    Alliance Vendor
    from SoCal

    If it's at ride height in the pic, it looks like you might have around 3" of travel at the axle. It'll be less than that at the kick up, so if you're using stock blocks with the subframe subtract an inch or so. If you have 2" clearance for the ladder at the kickup you should be good. Now's the time to measure it all and put snubbers on to limit the axle tube travel.
     
    3banjos likes this.
  6. To gain the suspension travel you will probably have to raise the floor in that area. HRP
     
    Wrench666 and baspinall like this.
  7. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 1,250

    X-cpe

    Behind the seat its easy to modify the floor. I would be looking at ladder bar travel under the seat area. A little easier to preplan modifications ahead of time.
     
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  8. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    X- cpe wouldn't there be much less travel going towards the seat area.
     
  9. big duece
    Joined: Jul 28, 2008
    Posts: 6,292

    big duece
    Member
    from kansas

    I would leave the body/subrails set on the frame as intended and modify the floor if needed.
     
    brEad, Outback, Wrench666 and 3 others like this.
  10. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    HRP = I think that is what I need to do. Raise the floor behind my seat area. I think I can figure that part out. What I would love to see some picture of is original subrails modified to go up and over a "Z" and then back down as to keep the rear subrail cross member at frame rail height. Don't know why I'm having a hard time visualizing this .... Ive scoured the forum looking for pictures of a modified original subrail going over my type of Z. Seems most people just build their own sub frame.
     
  11. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 12,173

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    Any significant modification usually requires several others......each one affects something else.

    Ray
     
    Stock Racer and IronFord like this.
  12. redroaddog
    Joined: Apr 1, 2011
    Posts: 332

    redroaddog
    Member

    Lay a straight edge. Across. the frame and move suspension to measure if it will clear
     
  13. redroaddog
    Joined: Apr 1, 2011
    Posts: 332

    redroaddog
    Member

    Also. a square on the side of frame rail to top of ladder measure from bottom. Of square to frame. should give you how much room you have
     
  14. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    redroaddog - As it sits now a straight edge laid across the frame right at the beginning of the Z sits on the ladder bars. They are 1/2 inch above my frame.
     

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  15. Beau
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,883

    Beau
    Member

    You're gonna need even more cut out to fit that driveshaft.
     
    57JoeFoMoPar likes this.
  16. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    The cross member that the ladder bars are on is lowered in the middle. Hard to see in that pic.
     
  17. justabeater37
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 1,469

    justabeater37
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Looks like your pinion is higher than the bars. Hence the need for more driveshaft room. Raise the floor now, easier than later.
     
  18. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,075

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    I think the ladder bars are to high at both the axle and the front mount.. If both mounting points were moved down a bit, you would have more travel and not have to modify the floor...
     
  19. AndersF
    Joined: Feb 16, 2013
    Posts: 792

    AndersF
    Member

    I removed the crossmembers on my subframe so the frame fit inside the subframe.
    Then i needed to rise the floor for my links to rearaxle.
    Allso modified the floor and subframe crossmembers for driveshaft tunnel.

    [​IMG]

    Then i needed to make some loops over the rearaxle on the subframe to clear for suspension.

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    Scrap metal - This is a frame that I bought from Riley's way back when (before he was banned lol). The front crossbar was already installed with the ladder bar tabs. The cross member also has very little drop in it for the drive shaft clearance as mentioned. maybe a new cross member with more drop and rotate the tabs another 25 degrees or so down might make things a bit better.
    Like I said this is my first rodeo and trying to visualize this isn't easy for me for some reason. I can do lots of things but for some reason I feel like I hit a wall here.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
    scrap metal 48 likes this.
  21. Maybe it's just me; but the clevis ends are screwed out a lot more than they should be. Not sure why the top end is out so far; but something is out of whack. Maybe some cutting and relocating is in order.
    If you cut and rotate the axle brackets to get the clevises even; will it affect your axle positioning. If it pulls it to far forward, maybe have to cut out some new axle brackets.
    DSC_0501.JPG
     
    Baumi likes this.
  22. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    Rich that was an older photo. The clevis ends are screwed in half way on top and bottoms. I was thinking that I welded these axle brackets to far forward. If I rotated them down it would lower the ladder in relationship to the frame but the clevis bolts would be to short then if that makes sense. I remember the instructions saying to have the clevis screwed in half way on top and bottom and I think that's how I located where to weld them
     

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  23. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    Would there be an issue with shimming the rear buggy spring? It would have to be a decent sized shim though.
     
  24. AndersF
    Joined: Feb 16, 2013
    Posts: 792

    AndersF
    Member

    The easy fix would be a stock style frame if you dont want to modify your subframe and floor.
     
  25. Are you worried about being too low? Maybe rig a spring spreader to work with your reversed eye spring and spread it out to duplicate ride height. Might tell you where you are at. If too low you could always build a spring spacer to adjust the height; not so much a spacer; but a purpose built part.
    Otherwise if the height is good, just go to town modifying the subrails and build a floor to match, some square tube along with some 18 ga and a bead roller will do the trick.
    I wouldn't use the wood blocks except the ones under the cowl. Steel with a piece of frame webbing is
    easier to deal with, line it all up, drill pilot holes, lift the subrails or body off and weld anchor nuts into the top of the frame rails. Pics of a couple steel floors we put in A subrails, the roadster has inset panels and the sedan has the panels flat on top of the subrail.
    10458822_691727554198506_2745701738053121947_n.jpg IMG_2083 (Medium).jpg
     
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  26. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    Rich I'm not worried about it being to low. Heck I'd like it lower. My issue was my ladder bars were sitting higher than my frame height and when I put the subrails down the last cross member was sitting on top of my ladder bars.
    I just cut the rear cross member out of the subrail assembly and it all sits flat on the frame now. The paper piece in the pic is a very crude idea of what I thought I could fab up and weld to the subrail to deal with getting around the Z & Axle. I still need to worry about how much up and down travel the ladder bars will have. Also have to deal with driveshaft clearance. So I guess I will also need to build a tunnel on the subrail cross members.
     

    Attached Files:

  27. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    I think I may remove most my rear spring pack today as well. Been reading that using the main leaf and maybe one or two tops leafs will get me in the ball park for ride height. One step forward two steps backwards I guess. But with the spring out I can double check my ladder bar position and the recheck the position of the spring hangers.
     
    RICH B likes this.
  28. jetdocmodelA
    Joined: Jan 6, 2016
    Posts: 27

    jetdocmodelA

  29. redroaddog
    Joined: Apr 1, 2011
    Posts: 332

    redroaddog
    Member

    If you put a framing square onthe side of the frame and over the ladder bar and cycled the suspension till the axle hit the frame. you could measure the distance from top of frame and bottom of square that would tell you if. With stock blocks it would clear
     
  30. baspinall
    Joined: Dec 8, 2009
    Posts: 450

    baspinall
    Member
    from SE PA

    Good idea. Couple ratchet straps would accomplish that I think.
     

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