Hey guys. I've searched on this a couple times, but everything "4 speed saginaw" on here seems to be related to how the Saginaw is a weaker trans than the Muncie, and there is very little that I could find regarding shifter options specifically. Anyway, here's my deal.... With the help of a couple HAMBer buddies and a couple Impala buddies, I converted my ole wagon from a powerglide to a 4 speed last fall and part of the package deal I got was a 4 speed Saginaw that didn't come with a shifter. Being tight on money and time, I threw in a cheapy offin ebay that was supposed to be universal - only to learn the hard way several times that it seemed to universally want to jam up. Now that the spring is here and I'll be driving the car alot more, I'd like to put in a decent shifter from a legit company. I just got laid off, so money is even tighter - but I have more time to learn what's what - and shop around a little and that's where I'm getting all mixed up. I'm seeing Hurst competition plus shifters and Hurst Indy shifters, and they look identical. I'll see a Super Shifter with a seperate reverse lever (which I think would be bad ass), then I'll see a Super Shifter without the seperate reverse lever and it too looks like that competition plus one. A HAMBer buddy of mine that I trust said he got the universal one from summit and it's been great - but the pics I've seen of it looks identical to the turd I bought, and I read a review on here that declared it as JUNK. Pretty much, I'm seeing lots of shifters that look identical but have different identifying numbers in the ads for them, I'm seeing shifters that look alike but have different names on them, I'm seeing shifters that say they are for Muncie or Super T10, but I see no visual reason why one of them wouldn't also work on my saggy ..... and in an effort to become a more educated shmuck, I've pretty much only become more shmucky. So if there's a "used Saginaw 4-speed shifter options guide for dummies" out there, my searches didn't find it. Also.... after seeing the Super Shifter with the seperate reverse lever, I have to admit it crossed my mind to fab up a deal like that using turd one I bought since it works fine until I involve reverse..... but do they even make such a "female" shifter boot with rubber accordian taint to accomodate such two-holeing action? I know I don't post much or often, but if anybody would be willing to help clear my "saginaw 4 speed shifter options for dummies" fog, I'd be VERY appreciative. Thanks, John
Oh man. About 100 years ago I had a 64' Impala with a Saginaw 4spd. The shifter jammed up so offten I left the shift boot loose and had a tire iron beside the seat so I could "un-jammit" from the drivers seat. Sorry, but that's all the help I got.............
the only car ive driven with a indy shifter and a saginaw trans felt real sloppy, i couldnt tell where i was shifting to. but it wasnt my car, so i wasnt used to it and it may have well worn, i dont know. the hurst with reverse lockout lever would prolly be the best bet, but spendy. id use a 3 speed shifter with a seperate lever for reverse, like the 57 chevy drag car had that was posted a while back, but then again i like off the wall ideas
The Muncie is distinguished from the Saginaw in that the reverse lever on the Muncie is mounted in the extension housing, where the Saginaw reverse lever is mounted in the side cover. The main difference between the Muncie and the Borg-Warner is that the Muncie has a 7-bolt side cover and the Borg Warner has a 9-bolt side cover.
Had a Saginaw 4 speed in a '62 Impala several years ago with a Hurst competition plus shifter. !st gear was lower than a Muncie (I think it was around 3.50 to 1) and with the 3.08 rear end gears it all worked great. It could pull good from a stop and still be a freeway flyer.
The only difference is the mounting plate and shifter rods length. I've used the some body on both sginaws and muncies. The difference between the comp and comp plus is the plus has stop bolts at the ends for the arms. The gm style usually have all three levers the are straight down from the body. Some others have a reverse arm that goes forward, mainly for fords, IIRC. Feel free to PM me with any questions. jerry
If you want to fab a separate reverse lever, I don't think it will be hard. I used to have an inline Hurst shifter with a separate reverse. All you had to do was put the main shifter in neutral and then flip the lever forward to engage reverse. As far as a boot with a separate hole for a reverse lever I would try floor boot for an old Willys Jeep (46-52) They had 2 and sometime 3 levers sticking out of the floor.
Indy shifters are Junk,,go with the Hurst Comp plus,,all teh hardware is easy to come buy What you need to focus on it the Mounts,,hurst has several mounts for the same transmissions,,this is due to where the shifter come through for certain model cars. Like long tailshaft,,short etc,,,the first thing you need to do is establish which tail shaft you have,,then where you need your shifter to come through.. any comp. plus shifter will be good. With the shifter look at the arms some are offset or angled forward,,again,,design for certain cars.. So its about what you need then you can figure the other stuff out
What you're experiencing with the universal shifters is they wear super fast and then start jamming. I think the stamped tin case spreads out then you're hosed. Once your buddy abuses his summit shifter for a year expect problems to start. If he shifts like a grandma then it might last a lot longer. The problem with the 3 speed and seperate lever is that you still need a decent 3 speed shifter to start with. At that point you can probably find a decent 4 speed shifter for similar money. A friend ran the twin stick setup for a couple years and you had to operate both levers in unison- 2 hands. In his pickup that meant leaning way down and was a major hassle for daily driver type stuff. You couldn't drive with a soda, you couldn't reach the stick with the shoulder harness on, your weight shifted away from your clutch foot when leaning over. 4wd trucks will be your source for twin-stick boots. Prolly gonna be a minitruck. Good luck
Money is tight???? Well...I wanted a shifter that was in the middle of the floor in my model A. So I fabed up a shifter from a '76 GM 4 speed, the one with the reverse lock out. It mounts to the floor ...so I cut and fabed a bracket to mount it to the center of the saginaw trans..cut off the lever, welded a flat iron with 2 holes in it to the stub. it now has a hurst lever on it. have plans for a "rat fink" long shifter.. more cut weld magic!!! Works great!!!!! I even fabed a spring on the left side of the lever, to get rid of the "slop gate shifter" feel I used a hurst super boot to cover up the ugly.. this shifter cant cost more than $20. can it???
Here's the deal. I've run 4 speeds forever. I prefer them over autos. One of the first things I learned decades ago from a transmission rebuilder was that your 4 speed is only as good as your shifter. If you want trouble out of your 4 speed, buy a junk shifter. Study the Hurst catalog. The shifter bodies all share the same shape and bolt holes, but not the same features. The comp plus is a better shifter than the Indy, and the Super Shifter, the one with the seperate reverse is intended for drag racing. I ran a Super Shifter in a ChevyII and I gotta tell ya, I REALLY got tired of reverse!! Now back to the set up. All the shifter bodies are shaped the same, and then Hurst supplies install kits for each different transmission as the transmissions have different levers, and Saginaws have the reverse in a different place. If you have a Hurst,or Indy, get an install kit for a Saginaw and you will be good to go. My avitar has a 454 with a Saginaw behind it. Indy shifter body, came off an old Borg Warner, the shifter doesn't know any different, and then I bought a Hurst Saginaw install kit. What I got was levers that fit that transmission, a bracket to mount the shifter body in the right place for a Saginaw, and rods the right length and shape for that combination. My shifter works like butter. And yes, I guess if you want to be like Dick Landy and bang shifts every time you go down the street, they will wear out. If that's what you want, then I suggest you get a Super Shifter as they are built a little tougher than the regular bodies. They also set up higher in the floor so that might be a problem. And I don't know that Hurst makes an install kit for the Super Shifter for a Saginaw, as the Saginaw usually isn't used for competition. I have seen guys take Indy shifters and drill the body for the shift stops that the Competiton Plus has. Don't know how well that works, never needed shift stops on a well tuned Indy shifter. I've run all kinds of shifters, and combinations of shifters, and most everything out there is less quality than Hurst. You get what you pay for, just don't blame the Saginaw for poor shifting. And while I'm at it, what you hear is right, if you're launching a heavy car with big tires, you'll be buying a Super T10 soon, so think about how you will treat the Saginaw before you spend a pocket full of money making it shift right. If you drive around on the street with some respect for your equipment, the old Sag will give you good service. Damn! can I pontificate, or what!?! But I've spent a long time playing with "butter churns", and I've learned a few things the hard way. Mike
Thanks guys. I have a couple shifter mounting brackets and I'm sure I can figure out the rod lengths and whatnot on my own - so I think I just need the actual shifter, which is the part that got me all messed up. Good idea too on the 4wd double boot too. Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. John
Mike is spot on. IMO, the comp. plus is a good shifter, but the linkage is the weak point. It will get sloppy over time, especially if you like to bang gears. The super shifter 3 has much better linkage that will hold up for the long run. But if $$ is at a premium, and you have some fab skills, you could get even a used comp. plus, check the play in the shifter(they make a shim kit for the comp. plus)and make your own linkage and/or modify the front of the linkage with some rod ends on the trans. Still seems like too much work for potential headaches later on- I've been down the used shifter road, and got real tired of it. If you shift it like you stole it, you need the super shifter 3. But I wouldn't go lower than a comp. plus for regular cruising. I've worn out a few comp plus's. It's super shifter 3 for me. Saginaws won't take much abuse though, so maybe bangin' gears may not be the best idea. Years ago when I couldn't afford a muncie, I always had 3 or 4 saginaws complete and spare parts ready for when(not if) I broke a saginaw. Became real good at rebuilding those. JM2C
Thanks guys, MIke's post wasn't there when I posted up last. I'm hip that I don't have the strongest tranny option out there, but it is a fresh rebuild and I do NOT drive it like I stole it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a granny and have a little fun with the car, but I'm no where's near the point of being abusive. The car is a 65 Biscayne Wagon with - I think - 342's.
I used a super shifter for years in a BB nova, the red lever is a reverse lock out, it not used to engage reverse. The V-Gate shifter used a seperate reverse lever.
If you don't power shift it it'll live a long time. And don't EVER accidentally launch it in reverse.
I agree the indy shifters seem to loosen up or get sloppy pretty quick. the comp + is a pretty nice shifter but still kinda expensive; I'm happy with mine anyways.
Dunn, the hurst is the only way to go. Hurst even rebuilds old units for $65 last time i checked. Let me know if you can't find one..........[ i have a few]. Even mopar pistal grip used hurst as well as 70's gm. Rich............
If you can find one (yea right), an Olds Cutlass vintage 78-79 with a four speed had the Saginaw trans with a Competition Plus shifter. The four speed cars were all Chevy powered and had Saginaw trans. The five speed cars used the old T5 NWC and they are worthless.
Here's a pic of a special shifter mount i did for a sag 4spd... It was built to fit the stock console opening in an early Mazda RX-7. This one's got 2nd and third gears with the crash box treatment, but it's a street car that does mid 6's in the 1/8. Saginaw 4spd is plenty strong for a light car. Here's a link to the rest of the car... http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/GSSshopmule.html Granny
Oh good lowered Granny!! That's a serious masterpiece. I took everybody's advice and bought a recently rebuilt Hurst Competition Plus shifter offin ebay. $65 shipped for the shifter unit only - but I thinks I can finger out the linkage and handle. Thanks guys.
Just to re-iterate, the summit 4 speed shifter is a death trap. I bought one for the new chrome arm and shift ball, but it can't find the right gear, ever. a real piece of shit. There should be laws against selling anything so terrible.
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