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Technical I have officially been beaten sadly.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by lostone, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 27,327


    No wonder nothing matches I for one thought you were using FORD subrails & FORD diminutions. Good luck in you bold new world. Bob
  2. Yeah, you WAYY overbuilt that subframe. You are now in uncharted territory. Add your flush doors and it is cut grind and weld time.
  3. yep, don't blame the old body for not lining up.
    good job on the subframe.
  4. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 1,356

    from kansas

    Yep but a square is a square is a square, doesn't matter what it's sitting on. And the fact is the body won't square in its entirety.

    As in I can square sections but not the entire body. Square the roof, weld supports in place to hold. Square door openings and weld supports to hold. Now roof to entire cowl to door openings are square but rear quarters aren't. Keep the roof and cowl square, remove door supports and square quarters and now doors and body lines are way off.

    So again as stated before you can make a model A fit but you can't make it square, not using factory assembly.
  5. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,370

    Gary Addcox

    If you put a small block chevy under the hood, all will be forgiven by the hotrod GODS, unless Ryan reads this post which will put me in HAMB jail ! I'll take one for the team ! ! LOL.
  6. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 1,356

    from kansas

    OMG ! No!! No chevy motor ! Its a ford remember? Thats why I'm sticking with the 440 mopar.... :D:p
    dan31 likes this.
  7. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,995


    Just remember you can't look at both sides at the same time.
    X-cpe and Budget36 like this.
  8. Barrelnose pickup
    Joined: Aug 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,170

    Barrelnose pickup

    Getting it perfectly square is possibly a bonus for the show circuit and your minds eye but you probably won’t notice when you’re driving and enjoying it, but with all due respect , , move on. There’s a little bloke in your avatar that couldn’t care how square it is,probably rather be hooting around with his dad in it.
    X-cpe likes this.
  9. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 1,356

    from kansas

    Hey Bob, I cut the strap above the door at the quarter panel and the lower rail at the quarter, moved the body straight back I believe it was 1/2".

    This gave the upper strap a bad angle which wasn't a problem, I just cut a small notch in the strap right behind the upper cowl header bracket and moved it onboard maybe a 1/4" at the quarter panel were I cut it there until it fit the contour of the door again and welded it in place. Used a little filler piece between the strap at the quarter to make up for the 1/2" I moved it forward.

    The next "problem" was were the door overlapped the upper panel. I put the upper panel in place, fitting it to to roof/quarter panel and tacked it there. Now this moves the upper panel back 1/2". Not a problem as I'm filling the top anyway.

    Next was figuring out how to get door gap on top. Again no problem. I moved the front of that upper panel out even with the front cowl windshield post. Again filling the roof so no problem with the upper panels being moved out 1\4" to flush with windshield post.

    Now the fun part. I now had a upper panel flushed and fit so now I needed the actual gap between door and header panel. I thought what the hell, I chopped to top of the door just above the upper hinge about 3/8" .

    here's a pic. Don't worry about the center of the header to door gap as the header is just tacked on each end. When clamped I have a good fat 1\8 door gap. Now its almost ready to chop the top!!

    Attached Files:

  10. X-cpe
    Joined: Mar 9, 2018
    Posts: 998


    My buddy bought a really successful street stock, 79 Camaro. We spent the winter and most of the first season prettying it up. Silver and dark blue metallic with red numbers shadowed opposite of their background. Toward the end of the second season a little girl came into the pits after the races and called it the "cow car". Looked like a Holstein with it's unpainted white fiberglass hood and all the black primer spots covering the 'it'll hold to the end of the season' repairs
    Nostrebor likes this.
  11. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,174


    I remember seeing an original set of prints for a Model A and if memory serves me correctly, the measurements were all " plus or minus 1 inch ";)
  12. low down A
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 299

    low down A

    you don't really believe that do you? plus or minus 1 inch. more like plus or minus a 1/4 of a inch
  13. lostone
    Joined: Oct 13, 2013
    Posts: 1,356

    from kansas

    I would bet the tolerances were more than a 1/4" most auto makers used 1/4" in the 60's up.

    On frames ford was the worst at being at the max of their tolerances all the way up into the early 90's.
  14. I might believe a 1/4" in the late fifties sixties but the early cars were closer than that. time age and use made the fitting more challenging.
    low down A and 66gmc like this.
  15. 66gmc
    Joined: Dec 4, 2005
    Posts: 552


    I agree. All the 20s-30s fords/ chevys and plymouth I have worked on were all within less than 1/8", and most were even closer than that. Anything that didn't measure out was caused by poor previous repairs, or years of abuse.... I've had a couple bodys with no signs of exterior damage, but were twisted out of shape by more than 1"....however they all went back into alignment after being bolted to a square frame, and many many hours with a portapower,come along, hammers and a tape measure.
    When I was learning autobody, my instructor said to always check each measurement from multiple points, just because it measures straight from 1 spot, it could be completely out when measured elsewhere, and it doesnt take long for a couple 1/8" discrepancies to turn into 1/4" or more.
    For example: when measuring the height of a model A door jamb at the B pillar, measuring from the subframe, to the door opening at the roof gives a measurement that is 1/4" lower than the other side, however when measuring across the outer 1/4 panel skin from top to bottom using a tailors tape measure, the measurement is the same from side to side. This is caused by the B pillar being bowed out in the middle (usually at the beltline area) and giving a false height reading when measured across a flat surface. The moral of the story is to always factor in the curvature and crown of each panel when measuring, you can check this by making templates of each side, and by making a grid and measuring to multiple points from a known base line. I think a lot of people blame the old car manufacturers for sloppy workmanship, when the real culprit is 90 year old panels that have sagged, buckled or bowed...or maybe I've just been fortunate enough to only work on the "good" bodys?
    Quality control definitely dropped off on postwar cars though haha.
    X-cpe and tb33anda3rd like this.

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