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Hydraulic Throwout Bearing Selection

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by scootermcrad, Dec 5, 2006.

  1. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,375

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm amazed there's not more info on here about T/out bearings.

    Need some info on hydraulic t/out bearings. I know they're a pain, I know it's going to be a headache to setup, etc. etc. but for my application I don't have much of a choice (space and configuration reasons). So let's not talk about slave cylinders and all that business. Just isn't applicable for my build.

    Running a T56. I haven't selected a clutch or flywheel, so sky's the limit. In fact, feel free to make a recommendation. I need a throwout bearing for a street application and I really know nothing about them. I've been told the cheap $150 t/out bearings from Speedway are just fine for the application. I don't doubt it, but since I know nothing about them I thought I would try to educate myself a little more. I know they can get expensive and I know there is the potential for them to overstroke and get out of place (or something). That's about the extent of my knowledge other than I would like to run a Wilwood M/C with it (3/4" I assume).

    Here's the cheap Speedway t/out bearing (stock GM type)
    http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Product.aspx?paging=yes&dept_id=441&display_id=1945
    [​IMG]


    So, let's open up the floor and talk about Hyd. T/out bearings and what to consider as well as limiting the stroke and what to pick for a non-race application.

    **Again, no slave cylinder stuff. There is tons of topics related to that and it's not applicable for me anyway.**

    Thanks guys!
    Scooter
     

  2. I used a howe which looks like that and it was a breeze. I opted for the additional hoses to remote bleed it. Don't how how I could have bled it otherwise. They just extend those two fittings shown in the picture you posted out the clutch fork hole so you can access them.

    Look on Howe's website and check out their installation pdf - it tells you everything you need to know. Summit sells them and is a pretty good place to do research.

    If you over throw them you just have to rebleed it. gthe bearing you choose will dictate what size slave cylinder to get.
     
  3. revkev6
    Joined: Jun 13, 2006
    Posts: 3,351

    revkev6
    Member
    from ma

    why not just use a slave cylinder?





    sorry couldn't resist
     
  4. a slave on the clutch fork? is that what you are saying? sorry didn't understand the comment and what there was to resist
     

  5. Slide
    Joined: May 11, 2004
    Posts: 3,022

    Slide
    Member

    While we're on the subject (and I hope this isn't derailing the thread), what would cause a hyd. T-O to overstroke? I hear of this as well, but it seems that would happen if:

    a) the bore of the clutch master is too big for the T-O. (So use what the T-O manufacturer calls for!)

    b) too much stroke from the pedal. (Too much distance from the pedal's pivot point to where the clutch master's pushrod connects to the pedal.) Seems like you'd bottom out the master before you'd overstroke the T-O in this case.

    I see the issue of making them hard to bleed, but as Tudor mentioned, having the hoses sticking out of the fork hole in the bh should pretty much resolve that issue.

    Seems that the main caveats of hyd. T-O's can be avoided by a little common sense + a length of bleeder hose?
     
  6. As noted - the one you show is a Howe unit - they make a good product. There are a few things you must know when you're looking to buy one - as they are all different:

    1) Compressed length
    2) Max Stroke
    3) Recommended master cylinder bore size.

    When I was setting up my TKO with an Early Hemi and a Sonic Chevy bell housing, I needed a hydraulic TO bearing with a short compressed length. The one I had previously purchased from Tilton would not fit. I then researched and found the Howe unit. You need to be able to setup your clutch, tranny and bell housing (all bolted together) to know what dimensions you have to work with. If you have a combination that many have used - then you might just be able to purchase what is known to fit. Also - pay close attention to the models that are available - as they have different bearing types/faces for the different types of clutches.

    Hope this helps . . .

    Dale
     
  7. exactly

    here is the link to the installation instructions:

    http://www.howeracing.com/Adobe/BearingDocs.pdf
     
  8. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 13,333

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    There is also Tilton and Mcleod.
    I used a Mcleod unit with a wilwood master....slick!
     
  9. Good post....in the same situation, but a cheap bastard, anyone know where to get good deals on them?
     
  10. D.W.
    Joined: Jun 5, 2004
    Posts: 2,070

    D.W.
    Member
    from Austin Tx.

    Me too. No problems here.
     
  11. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,375

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What's the difference between the Howe, Tilton and Mcleod? I know McLeod makes some awesome clutches (have been thinking of one of those), but heard the stuff is pretty spendy. At this point I've put more money than I want to admit into my drivetrain and have no intentions of cutting corners with a t/out bearing, but if they're all the same and the Howe is half the price, theeennn.... well, what's the right thing to do here? I was told by a pretty reliable source that the Howe is all I need, but if the Tilton and McLeod are going to offer less setup and usage issues, I have no problem spending the little extra to make life easier.

    Some good info here guys! Keep it coming!

    Do you guys like the Wilwood M/C then? Been thinking of using their M/C and brake set up (with the three masters - front brakes, rear brakes and clutch). Seems pretty slick.

    Anyone have pics of how they ran their bleed tube? The way my Hemi block is, it's got the extended bell with the inspection plate in the bottom. Thought about running the tube right out that plate and then the hydraulic lines right out the side of the bell (no fork holes in an extended bell 331 hemi).
     
  12. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,375

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  13. hemi coupe
    Joined: Dec 25, 2001
    Posts: 1,162

    hemi coupe
    Member
    from so-cal

    One word Mcleod, I have used their t/o bearings on alot of cars and never had a problem.
    Jimmy White
     
  14. BriggsBodied28
    Joined: May 13, 2006
    Posts: 88

    BriggsBodied28
    Member

    As I understand it, Mcleod "Gen-II" units are similar to the current OEM units in that they don't require shimming...they self-set. I'm planning to run the Mcleod for a clean setup.

    -Chad
     
  15. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,375

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Cool! Thanks for your input guys! I appreciate it! Lots of good info here.

    Any other general info I should know about setup?
     
  16. scottybaccus
    Joined: Mar 13, 2006
    Posts: 4,109

    scottybaccus
    Member

    scooter,

    you do know that you can get a pull type or push type slave, right? Just because you don't have room on one side of the fork doesn't mean you can't put a slave on the other.
    I would also suggest you look at the later model T56 factory hydraulic system. It comes from GM with master, slave, lines, prebled for about $140. I think it is a compact pull type, aft of the fork.
     
  17. ROADRAT EDDIE
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,349

    ROADRAT EDDIE
    Member
    from New york

    I purchased a Howe to run with a Nailhead and a T-5 because of the same situation Also gonna run a Wilwood dual master and clutch setup with 3/4' bore.....Haven't put it all together yet but my biggest fear is leaking. Spoke to the guy at Bendstens and he told me that he doesn't recommend them at all because of the leaking concern.....Says he has 4 of them on the shelf that were leakers and also said that he got one of the manufacturers at SEMA to confess that there is leaking concerns with them....Now, i've searched through threads on here and have seen a coupla posts where someone had a leaker but generally most have had good experience...I know the roundy round racers use these things all the time but they aren't shifting often and are serviced every winter.......Guess i'll just cross my fingers....Shimming correctly looks important
     
  18. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,375

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I love ya' scottybaccus... but I can't run a fork and slave for what I'm up to... at least not easily. I would have to modify my bell (and probably the adapter) substantially to fit a fork and buy the entire rig to make it happen, when for the a few bucks more, less space and less hastle I can set up a hyd. t/out bearing and just be done with it. I'm pretty set on keeping it simple and just getting a t/out that works well.

    BTW scotty.... thanks again for all the info on the T56. I think it's going to work out well! Good to see that thing sitting in the garage now.

    Now, back to our programming...

    Hearing the words "Howe" and "leak/leaking" in the same paragraph has sealed the deal for me right there. No Howe for me. The idea is to simplify this operation as much as possible, not make my life more difficult by having to service or possibly replace a leaky t/out brng.. Going to focus on the the McLeod.
     
  19. ROADRAT EDDIE
    Joined: Apr 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,349

    ROADRAT EDDIE
    Member
    from New york

    Okay, talked to a guy that sells race parts this afternoon.....He says he's got one in his Cobra kit car and has no problems....Most important he says is to have a pedal stop to prevent it from over extending....Just have to figure out the maximum throw without it over extending......Maybe an adjustable stop?
     
  20. CMenard
    Joined: Nov 18, 2006
    Posts: 36

    CMenard
    Member

    Same here. The swivel fittings on the McLeod are nice as well. I used one on a T-5 in a V8 Focus we built. :eek:
     
  21. KING CHASSIS
    Joined: Aug 28, 2005
    Posts: 1,867

    KING CHASSIS
    Member

    Had a HOWE in my sedan this summer, car didnt have 300 miles on it and started leaking (at the HAMB drags). Bought the rebuild kit, took it apart and didnt notice anything wrong, replaced the seals put back together and was fixed. Lucky didnt soak the clutch. KING
     

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