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Technical Hydraulic Roller Lifter recommendation - USA made preferable

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by flatoz, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,045

    flatoz
    Member

    HAMB people.

    I'm hoping someone might be able to help.

    I have a set of Morel Hydraulic Roller lifters in a motor, they have started to make a noise on start up. It seems they are bleeding out when parked over night and not keeping pressure, so there's a racket on start up which once the pressure builds up and the oil thins down it goes away. I'm talking like I had solid lifter in there like my flathead.

    Anyway, I spoke to the guy I got them off and I also did a search, seem Morel are prone to this - not good. I rang a guy at a cam shop I know as I was hoping to get new springs and just pull the lifters and swap the springs over etc. But with the tie bar design you can't pull them down like you can an individual lifter. So...

    The suggestion was try thinner oil as a 'flush' so in went 10-30 for a while ( running 15-40 normally) that stayed in for about 60 mi , then drained , then I put 20-50 in. Long and short no major difference. So I don't know if I still have say a piece of 'dirt' holding the check ball open or just a dud lifter in general.

    So. My question is, what is the option for hydraulic roller lifters - company wise? Morel make these for many companies so I want to steer clear of them. the ones I have , have been in the car 7 years but they should last longer than that. My cam shop guy said you could buy another set and have the same trouble straight off. No thanks.

    Looking around , given I'm in Australia, surprisingly there are a set of chineseium made ones for $160 delivered to my door. But to buy any from the US is going to be about $900. Hell of a difference, but probably a hell of a difference in quality. I'm happy to spend some money, but I don't want to be another $900 into some lifters that are making the same racket again.

    Anyone got any suggestions? Oh, and this is for a Big Block Olds, so some companies may not make them either.

    thanks.

    Motor pic, everyone loves threads with pictures.

    this is the motor going together about 8 years ago.

    IMGP2060.JPG



    this is recently when I did a cam swap still nice and clean inside - and yes I have checked the preload.



    20161106_152817_resized_2.jpg
     
  2. tinkirk
    Joined: Jan 16, 2017
    Posts: 46

    tinkirk

    Take the lifters apart and clean the insides all up maybe stretch the spring a little lube up and put back together and see what happens, it's just time and no $ spend
    Not that difficult to do


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  3. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 234

    FityFive
    Member

    I put a set of Morel rollers in my wife's 1960 Thunderbird and they are make some noise at start up as well.

    I originally ran valvoline 10w30 and recently switched to RotellA HDDEO 10w30. The lifters are much louder at start up with the Rotella. Maybe the Rotella is thicker during startup. I am going to switch back to valvoline.
     
  4. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 6,129

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If the drain back valve on the oil filter system is allowing the oil to leak back down out of the oil galleys while shutdown it can cause this problem. Had a bout of it on an OT 4.6L DOHC Linc. engine several years ago, although it was an oil pressure actuated timing chain tensioner on that one.
    Changed oil filter brands to get a better anti drainback valve and cured the problem. No experience with oiling system on BB OLDS, but I'm fairly certain there's an antidrainback valve somewhere in the oil filter system. I think if it were me, I'd check into this before I went to all the expense and work to change the lifters.
    Morel has a good reputation and is, as you said a supplier for several brands.
     
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  5. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 234

    FityFive
    Member

    I am currently using a Motorcraft FL1A oil filter. Is there a better suggestion?
     
  6. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 6,129

    dirty old man
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That is what I would term as an acceptable filter. But not knowing anything about the oiling system of that big block Olds, I have to ask, is there another anti drainback valve that isn't sealing somewhere else in the system?
     
  7. DAVID KLUTTZ
    Joined: Feb 27, 2017
    Posts: 8

    DAVID KLUTTZ

    Morels are the best on the market--they make dozens of different valving and part numbers all of which require certain oil viscosity Call Morel--they have very specific detailed info on oil weight per part number and PRELOAD--it is critical you follow the directions they give on preload--to the letter---spring pressure in excess is a demon and screws it all up--I build 3-4 engines per week--I know --Call them --get advice --follow to the letter--and you will have no issues-- Johnsons are the ones to stay away from on hyd roller not Morels--and..if you put that engine together with any dirt at all it will effect the lifters in a big way--even the most tiny crud screws lifters up--you may think it was clean but we spend about an hour cleaning every block before a build--after all the mechanical cleaning-- so........
     
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  8. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,045

    flatoz
    Member

    Thanks David, I think I will call them and see. This motor was quiet until recently, as I said, it's been in the car 7 years or so. I did a com swap late last year but the noise only started showing up recently. I too am pretty anal about cleanliness of engine assembly. I know Morel are said to be quality, as you can see from my motor , edelbrock heads harlan-sharp roller rockers. I didn't use junk. However if you do some research on the net you will see there are plenty of people having this exact same trouble. Plus there was no paperwork with the lifters at all.

    D-O-M, the filter I have does have an anti drain back in it, it's actually a WIX brand ( I import them from the US for the motor) But for the price of a filter its a cheap way to check.

    TIN - that is exactly what I was going to do, but as these have the tiebar you can't get them apart like that, the 'rivet' for the tie bar would need to be drilled out to allow the cup the pushrod seats in to come out. If they were stand alone lifters that is what I would have just done, pulled them all out and apart and gone through them one at a time.

    thanks All, thats given me some avenues to pursue.
     
  9. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 3,767

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    As stated above, call them. They are the good ones. I think they usually recommend lighter weight oil over heavier/ thicker oil and the preloads are very specific. I have them in my '40 Coupe (SBC)with close to 35,000 miles and some pretty hard flogging too on them and they have been great. I run 5W30 synthetic.
     
  10. tinkirk
    Joined: Jan 16, 2017
    Posts: 46

    tinkirk

    You might be able to send them back ti morel and have them rebuilt for lot less money than buying new


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  11. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 234

    FityFive
    Member

    I took David Kluttz advice and communicated with Morel today about my 5325 hydraulic roller lifters. They recommend using 5w30 oil and the spring pressure should not exceed 160# seat and 400# open. My spring pressures are fine, but I am using 10w30 oil. I will change oil and see what happens.
     
  12. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,045

    flatoz
    Member

    Thanks,

    what did they say about preload?
     
  13. tinkirk
    Joined: Jan 16, 2017
    Posts: 46

    tinkirk

    Maybe I'm wrong but my thoughts are if they are bleeding down with 10w30 won't they bleed quicker with 5w30
    ??? Are you a synthetic oil?
    Also what kind of rpm's are you running at times with it
    I know with sbc and bbc I've always run 15w50 mobil 1 with no issues with comp cams products
    Good luck with whichever way you decide to go
    Tinkirk


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  14. FityFive
    Joined: Aug 9, 2010
    Posts: 234

    FityFive
    Member

    I did not ask about preload.

    I am running conventional oil.
     
  15. flatoz
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,045

    flatoz
    Member

    55, the above poster David did say that preload is critical so I'm surprised that didn't question you on it. I haven't called them but will try to ( not easy from Australia sometimes) I sort of agree with Tin, as in I know my noise level increased when I ran the 10-30 compared to the 15-40 I usually run. Plus like everything it also depends on how your crank is ground etc. Many variables to which oil to run.

    Its cold here at the moment so that isn't helping on start up.

    is the 5/30 recommended as they will make noise but the lighter oil means it will warm up quicker and the noise goes away quicker?

    Anyway the problem continues.

    I would like to know their thoughts on preload as I was planning on redoing this on the weekend. But only want to make a change if they think it will help. Otherwise a time wasted job and a pair of gaskets I don't need to waste.
     
  16. tinkirk
    Joined: Jan 16, 2017
    Posts: 46

    tinkirk

    Preload with hyd lifter 0 lash + 1/2 turn is what have always done for performance 3/4 turn factory spec on flat hyds


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  17. tinkirk
    Joined: Jan 16, 2017
    Posts: 46

    tinkirk

    Also the very first thing i would do is switch to synthetic oil
    I am a very firm believer in it after seeing the bottom end of race motors that i have done over the years
    There is a big difference between reg oil and synthetic oil when i tore them apart after a season of abusing the motor


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  18. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 3,767

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

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