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Technical HVLP Turbine Paint systems, need input from some painters or users

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by 55Thunderboy, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    Hi guys I have been eyeing the TP Tools finish line Turbine for over 10 years and just bought one a few weeks back for $599 with all 3 guns. The deal seemed too good to be true and I had to try it. I so far tried it out a few times and I am not sure I like the system enough to keep it or maybe i should have invested in a better Apollo system. I honestly do not know the differences in laymans terms with the TP versus the pricer Apollo systems. I called Eastwood to ask about their system ( Apollo) and nobody at Eastwood knew anything to sell me into their system, very disappointed in Eastwood for that.

    I am not an autobody painter however i do paint well, mostly touch ups, parts, engine bays, wheels, dash panels and other stuff including bikes. I have been using a Devillbis Finishline HVLP gun kit for 10 years with a compressor and often get oil and crap in the finish which sucks. My compressor is crap and i have 3 filters and water traps. Overall i do a darn decent job most of the time. I felt it was time to invest in better gear as I want to get better and eventually try to spray full cars on my own with less paint consumption, quicker dry times and a smoother finish.

    I dont have a booth or IR heat lamps i just throw on my Modine heater in the garage or shoot outside on a calm day and air dry and then color sand a few days later with excellent results. So far using the TP Turbine I had issues with some PPG DLF primer and DCC300 where it did not cure properly at all and gummed up. I have to strip everything down and need to redo a set of steelies and a hood. I think the heated air caused the activator to kick off to quick but i am using the slowest activators PPG offers and im using my gun technique just as if im spraying with my compressor and HVLP guns. Temps when I sprayed were in the 50-55 degree range.

    I also dont like the fact the turbine shoots constant air even after the gun is released from the air cap, kinda strange to me and the noise of the constant motor is also not relaxing at all to work with. I think the constant burst of air from the cap is going to kick up debris in the air which will find its way into the finish, something I was not aware of with this system.

    I want to hear some feedback from some guys who paint about these systems from TP or Apollo and any tips and tricks to share with me so i can decide if il keep it or not. If i send it back I may just stick to my Finishline guns and invest in a decent IR lamp and a better Scroll compressor from Eastwood.

    Thanks again
     
  2. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,447

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    I have a HVLP turbine that started life with a 2 stage turbine which I then switched to a 3 stage turbine.

    That sprayed epoxy primer and high build primer surfacer reasonably well.

    For the finish painting I decided I would again upgrade the turbine and ordered up an Ametek 6 stage turbine blower.

    A huge improvement, spraying acrylic urethane was perfect.

    Details on my build thread of the turbine modifications and the results.

    For a spray gun I used a Fuji T75 which is a better gun than any bleeder style gun that passes air constantly.

    The Fuji is a non bleeder gun so it’s not passing air unless you are spraying.

    In order to work with a non bleeder gun the turbine is equipped with a pressure relief port (a 3/16” hole) that takes some of the load off of the turbine when you are not spraying.

    I have both bleeder and non bleeder guns and really prefer the Fuji T75 gun.
    It’s a good quality gun.
    I never had any problems with premature drying or anything like that and I used a medium reducer.

    I got good results and I had never done much painting before.
    Hope that helps.
     
  3. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 733

    metlmunchr
    Member

    I'm not a fan of turbines. Got a Fuji turbine and conventional hvlp gun (not gravity feed) that I picked up at an auction a few years ago. Don't like the warm air as it can mess with the paint viscosity. I've got an Iwata LPH-400 with 1.4 tip and silver air cap, and the finish with the Iwata is in a whole different league as compared to the turbine. Maybe if I bought a Fuji gravity gun it might be comparable, but I'm not willing to drop $350 to find out.

    That said, my guess is that your problem is too low temperature for spraying urethane. Most tech sheets from any manufacturer I've seen caution against any use at temperatures of 60*F or below. Air temp or metal temp. PPG's sheets actually say the curing reaction will stop if the temp is below 60*.
     
  4. millersgarage
    Joined: Jun 23, 2009
    Posts: 2,007

    millersgarage
    Member

    I have a TP turbine. It really takes some getting used to. If i have never sprayed with another HLVP gun, I may not know any different.
    What I noticed right away was that it really throws the material out. Awesome for priming old pitted metal, not so much for finesse work, like jambs, undersides, etc.

    practice practice practice.

    I know guys that can spray a show winning finish with Harbor Freight guns, so it just shows that you need to know your equipment.

    buying the most expensive golf clubs won't fix your slice either....
     
    brad2v and Sporty45 like this.
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  5. I never painted before and bought a used tp turbine. Shooting single stage ,1st paint job came out really nice. 2nd one shooting at 70 degrees, using slow activators, the paint was drying as it hit the car, rougher then bed liner. After major cut and buff ,looks good from from 5 foot away. Last week I practiced on a pedal car, turned material volume WAY down and shot my smoothest job yet. Not sure why turning down volume helped so much. They do take practice.
     
  6. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    thanks for the input here guys, i also had no idea between bleeder and non bleeder guns but i think i would prefer a non bleeder gun where as the air bypasses as the turbine instead of the air cap.

    Also guys what is the difference and any benefit with the different stages of turbine systems out there? TP does not list what type of turbine their system is does anyone know? i see stages 2 to 6 from companies like Fuji and Apollo.

    Spent some time researching these systems more and only find reviews and info from guys doing woodworking and cabinet refinishing and nothing from gearheads painting cars. Also surprised at the lack of youtube vids on this subject pertaining to auto refinishing.
     
  7. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    Did you alter the air flow on the whip hose that has that valve built in? If i reduce the air it does cut back on overspray but the material does not seem to atomize as well. I also played around with the material volume knob some if i get a ultra fine spray out it does not seem to lay out smooth enough until i open the air hose valve fully or the material knob. i so far feel these systems work very different than a conventional hvlp spray gun.
     
  8. Bought mine used, only have the main hose so no air adjustment.
     
  9. theHIGHLANDER
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,002

    theHIGHLANDER
    Member

    Oil and water may not be as easy to remove from compressor air flow as having traps. The hose lays on the floor, gets cold, warm air in the hose will sweat, you get water. Oil is alwyas in compressor air systems. It's so fine that it almost doesn't matter most of the time. Best solution is a separate tank where things can settle down before they get into the rest of the stream. I realize some of those solutions aren't practical for home shops but a little creativity might help. I never once had a desire to go turbine. Just don't like to re-invent the wheel, right? Air, gun, paint, practice, fix issues, practice more. I'm 60, painted my 1st complete at 14. I'm still learning, still a "practice" especially with all this '4 to 1' shit. But hey, beats the hell out of pumping septic tanks for a living;)
     
    Torchie likes this.
  10. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,447

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    This past summer and I shot acrylic urethane at temperatures as high as 80 degrees and as low as 53 degrees.

    The high temperatures were less than ideal but I still got good results and the paint cured fine at 53 degrees even though the basf tech sheet says 60 degrees.

    I never experienced a problem with the turbine air being too warm. I used a 25’ hose from the turbine to the gun and it cools off in the hose enough that it’s a noticeable difference between air temperatures coming out of the turbine to the air temperature at the gun.

    After my experiences with my system and being a rookie, I loved it.
     
  11. Wild wildman
    Joined: Nov 26, 2017
    Posts: 6

    Wild wildman

     
  12. Wild wildman
    Joined: Nov 26, 2017
    Posts: 6

    Wild wildman

    I've been painting cars for over 20 years and turbine guns are generally used by lot lizards that do small bumper repairs for dealers. If you want a really nice guy get your self a sata jet 4000. Pricey but the proof is in the pudding!
     
  13. Blue One
    Joined: Feb 6, 2010
    Posts: 10,447

    Blue One
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Alberta

    And dinosaurs once roamed the earth too :D
    Sounds like one survived :D

    Check out some previous :Dposts discussing HVLP turbine paint systems and you will find some very experienced guys who have done show quality paint work using turbine systems.
    They will make your derogatory comments look ill informed. :D:D
     
  14. Wild wildman
    Joined: Nov 26, 2017
    Posts: 6

    Wild wildman

     
  15. Wild wildman
    Joined: Nov 26, 2017
    Posts: 6

    Wild wildman

    Well don't get butt hurt! I never said u can't do a good paint job with a turbine. Actually as a professional body shop owner I can go to menards and buy a 16.99 hvlp and put down an award winning paint job. A good paint job is done by a very experienced person that pays extra attention to prep. I personally would not waste my time or money on one but this is America and your free to use what ever you want.
     
  16. 55Thunderboy
    Joined: Mar 27, 2009
    Posts: 356

    55Thunderboy
    Member
    from NYC

    I decided to send the entire kit back to TP tools i just really dislike the bleeder spray guns as my biggest peeve with this kit. Spoke to a few other Turbine manufactures and plan to save up and get one of those as they are 4 times the price. For now il just use my HVLP guns with my compressor and pray for the best as always.
     

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