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Hunnert, first time there.....

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gonmad, Oct 11, 2010.

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  1. Stock appearing wagon with faded stock paint with a set of Orings slapped on it? I would not have let it in either.

    And I actually like your car.

    But no-go unless you would have brought up the kiddies.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  2. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    I just got finished writing an editorial covering how proud of the Chrome Czars I am. And then I see this... It made me wince a bit, because I've been there... Hell, I am there.

    First and foremost, props to gonmad for the way he handled this. He didn't scream at folks, he didn't swing at some poor bastard working the gate (that happened to me once btw), he didn't jump online and start a thread with no constructive crit. He posted his experience... I think that's positive.

    That out of the way, we don't live in a perfect world. Running a car show like this is soooo damned hard fellas. You want to keep it traditional. You want to keep the "rat rods" (for lack of a better term) out. You want to keep it focused. You want to keep it laid back and fun...

    It's just soo damned hard. You are bound to make mistakes. It's gonna happen. You are gonna piss some folks off... And it sucks. It comes with the territory and it's not at all fun.

    This wagon is a perfect example. By all accounts, it's a pretty damned cool car.

    I'm gonna break down here... and act as if I was working the gate. I see it roll up and my first impression is, "Hey, nice casual wagon... Original looking." And then I see the 17" wheels... I admit it, I would second guess myself a bit here. For an instance, I wouldn't really know what to do unless I had an absolute vision of what should and should not be in. Even in my own shows, I don't have that... And to be honest, I would have prolly waved him through. "Have fun."

    But what if I had Tommy working the gate? I told him this was a traditional show and act accordingly. He saw the 17" wheels and instantly checked it off. He is by the law that I gave him...

    It's hard to give someone else wiggle room on the decision. And it's hard for them to take it consistently.

    We live in an imperfect world. I don't think there is anything you can do about it... Shit is gonna happen... People are gonna be disappointed.

    I feel for both sides... I really do. I can't stress enough how hard something like this really is. Folks that don't know and have never done it will lay down their opinion casually... It will seem sound... but it's not. There is no clean way to do any of this.
     
  3. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,418

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    Man, I wanna go to this show..always heard about it, and have always wanted to attend and show..
    sure would hate to drive all that way out there just to be told to leave it out in the parking lot..

    I dont have any Billet, or 17..19..20+ wheels..how pickey can they get? if some are getting in and that green thing..man I dont know
    sure would like to be turned away in my own drive way than to pack up the family gas up and head out for a solid day of it to be turned around because i see it differently than the guy at the gate

    Im not really big on the show thing..and this would definetly turn me off.
    How can one be we be sure we will be let in once we get there?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  4. bscottstudio
    Joined: May 19, 2005
    Posts: 222

    bscottstudio
    Member
    from Kansas

    Boy do I agree with Ryan, Gonmad your wagon makes me grin every time I see it. I also see it alot all over the country with your family. You make me proud when I see the kids playin in the dirt with their hot wheels next to the car. My wife and I have always takin notice of your family, cause we did the same and still try to take the grandkids when possible. You set the best example for the future. Thanks!!!
     
  5. kustombuilder
    Joined: Sep 18, 2002
    Posts: 7,750

    kustombuilder
    Member
    from Novi, MI

  6. HotRodChassis
    Joined: Jan 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,282

    HotRodChassis
    Alliance Vendor

    Krobe: Just a comment. that show is called NSRA X-Nationals, or Good Guys.

    Fellas, we do our best to not let in cars that don't meet the criteria. We also do our best to have a safe show. MOST of the cars that were in the show with "rubber bands" and over 16" wheels were refused entry. But they also figured out that we had gates open at the North end of the grounds. The police, fire, and ambulance crews like that. And so did the guys that decided to say to hell with the rules and the inspectors and get in for free. Not cool. But it's happened more and more. The last 3 years for sure. It's always nice to see the look on those guys faces as they are sulking out of the show and they see one of us. Especially me if I'm the one that refused them entry. This year, I actually said something to two of them. So it's not like we don't notice it, or react to it. One guy I told not to come back. His reaction upon rejection (almost hitting a bunch of folks with his foot all the way to the wood) and then sneeking in the back gate earned him a "don't come back."

    I was the one personally that rejected the wagon. I also told the owner how cool of a car it was, and that it sucked that it wasn't getting in. So let's say I let the wagon in, with his 17" wheels. Would this thread be from someone else crabbing about the "rubber-band" white walls? Maybe.

    It's funny, I do the best I can. And every year there are folks that drove X hours to get there, are rejected, and just can't stand it. This year there were lots of wheels that stopped people from getting in. LOTS of 17"+ wheels on cars that had never been to the show before. Looking through little books, photos online, and the Coker catalog for reference, I see TONS of 14", 15" and 16" wheels and WWW tires. Yes, there are 17"+ tires in the catalog, but most fit 3" and 4" rims and have a 4"+ side wall, and are mostly for Model T and A type cars. Tires and wheels are always rough. The show is for "Traditional Hot Rods and Customs". And I just don't see 17"+ rims, no matter what they are off of, as being a wheel and tire combo that was used pre 1964. Like most people, my reasons are mostly because we all identify them on G-Machines, Street Rods and Super Cars. The lack of 285/45-15's in 1964 is part of it.

    We could "what if" all day about it. "Did you buy the wheels for the handling, and not for the Traditional styling?" Etc. Etc.
    My solution for Megans' Shoebox is to own a set of steelies for traditional shows that she wants to attend, and the 17's and 18's for regular road duty as a daily. That's not the cure for everyone, or everyones wallet, but it's one suggestion.

    Constructive criticism is always welcome. Gonmad, thanks for your well worded post.
     
  7. chop32
    Joined: Oct 13, 2002
    Posts: 1,077

    chop32
    Member

    This has always been the biggest problem at traditional shows.
    We hosted Billetproof California for many years and these issues came up quite often. When it came down to a car being on the fence between getting in or not, we deferred to the billet/no-billet and modern aluminum wheels rules. Steel wheels (not ralley wheels) always got the nod.
    Unfortunately, no matter what acceptance criteria you have as a guide line, every inspector will have a slightly different interpretation of it. Couple that with having to make a quick decision to keep the line moving, things dont always work out the way they should.
    Can you pre-register to the Pileup?
    As Roothawg stated, Pre-registration will help a lot... if you have the people resources to take on the task.
    Pre-reg isnt a cure-all though...every year we had the guys who would register a car that didnt come close to fitting the show criteria, then show up and cause a stink at the gate because of their pre-registered status. You could have them send in a picture of the car, but that doesnt guarantee they will show up in that vehicle.
    I want to give credit to gonmad for the way he presented his ideas, not resorting to the bitching and whining that so often accompanies these type of threads. Love that wagon!
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  8. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,829

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    [​IMG]

    that's pretty chickenshit that this car didn't get in. are 50 chevys with MII and airbags kept out as well? nothing traditional about that.

    I'd rather read the annual Antioch Billetproof bitchfest on how 4 cars out of 1000 got in that were not perfect traditional than about some guy who got tossed for 17"wheels after driving 10 hours.
     
  9. Their rules, their game. The jet would have been turned away as well.
     
  10. 49ratfink
    Joined: Feb 8, 2004
    Posts: 18,829

    49ratfink
    Member
    from California

    thank you for stating the obvious.
     
  11. bscottstudio
    Joined: May 19, 2005
    Posts: 222

    bscottstudio
    Member
    from Kansas

    Well said Ray Gun, we had a great time and love the show as a vendor, spectator and participant, we applaud the CZARS on a job well done.
     
  12. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I agree. Very inconsistent...not difficult to see that. Either be hard and strict or friendly and lax...not both.

    The idea of pre-registration is a good one. And if you've been pre-approved, then no turning away once you're there.
     
  13. Plowboy
    Joined: Nov 8, 2002
    Posts: 4,278

    Plowboy
    Member

    I believe that if you are on the fence, and the car is cool, let it in. It isn't like it was up in Morris and space was limited. It would also be another 20 bucks for charity instead of 5. The one thing I really noticed about the roundup is the fact that there are a lot of big wheels in there and a lot of rat rods, but for some reason, no one really complains about them as much as they do at the pileup.

    I have 2 buddies that were denied entry to the show, one for raised white letter tires and one for a 70's GM column and steering wheel. I was surprised both did not get in since both cars were well received in the past at the pileup. However, on the other side of the spectrum, I was surprised that my buddy Russ's narrowed up Stude was let in with its recent modifications. It would be a tough call for sure.
     
  14. TudorJeff
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 1,132

    TudorJeff
    Member

    I used to think that pre-registration was also a good idea... Until we had a car show up at Symco that was pre-registered and clearly did not fit the show. I could understand that the owner was upset since he stated he submitted pictures and all. Not sure who processed the registration as that could have been caught if the pictures were reviewed.

    The vehicle was a crap-tacular rat rod truck with satin centerline wheels, huge rubber spider on the griller, etc. He was not allowed in and his registration money was returned. No more pre-registration.
     
  15. solid
    Joined: May 20, 2007
    Posts: 1,459

    solid
    Member

    His wagon is about as cool a family cruiser as you will find. If it was a all out custom or hot rod it would be different, but this guy drives his family all over the place in that car. A cool old lowered wagon with the wife and kids in there, all their car show stuff in the back to make a day of it...guys like that should get in everytime, imho...
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  16. Ryan
    Joined: Jan 2, 1995
    Posts: 21,633

    Ryan
    ADMINISTRATOR
    Staff Member

    It's easy for fellas to post on a message board and call it "chicken shit." It's a lot different when you are there... and you have the pressure of the gate. Maybe for some folks it's easy to call the shots without so much as thinking about it. It never has been for me.

    A good example was at the drags this year. A really nice guy pulled up in a car that wasn't pre-registered and didn't meet the requirements of the event. He drove from Little Rock and was really bummed when I rejected him. He was a gentleman, but he was really upset.

    I thought about him off and on for the rest of the day. It totally sucked to disappoint him. I hated doing it.

    Hell, I've been sending rejection emails for the Revolution pre-regs... that's not fun either. It ruins my day.

    And then there are the cases when you screw up and let someone in that shouldn't be. It sucks just as bad. You walk around and think about the guys that got rejected and will then use your screw up as ammo to make a case. You also think about how they must feel... Why the hell did that guy get in and I didn't? That weird green Stude thing is a good example. It's ammo...

    I'm telling you guys. This stuff isn't easy. It just sucks that you have to be human... you have disappoint some folks... you are bound to make mistakes... etc...

    It really makes you question why you host car shows at all. Sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the heartache. I'm glad the Chrome Czars find it so.
     
  17. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,418

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    Can you send in pictures to the Czars before you burn time and money to get rejected?
    and be given a rubber stamp or not , just so you know you will / or not be rejected?

    anyone know?
     
  18. Hellfish or Magnet mentioned in an older thread that they would be glad to look at cars beforehand if there is doubt.

    Under the criteria and MY own judging I would not let my 54 in Either. Only mods are Lee lenses and a set of big n litttle steelies in 15". Faded 70s paint job...........simply too stock.
     
  19. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,418

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage

    Thanks T man, I will remember this come next year if i can make it..
    I would love to attend, but if i come that far to just be a pedestrian, It would be nice to know before hand

    I got nothin' against the venue, or the promo people..I just hate wastin time and money
     
  20. lowelife
    Joined: Aug 30, 2007
    Posts: 399

    lowelife
    Member

    The bottom line is there has to be a cut off somewhere. No matter what the desicion is someone will disagree. With many different inspectors you will have opinions and if you stray away from the criteria you end up with alot of discrepencies I personally think a good job was done to get that many cars inspected, in the gate and parked in a reasonable amount of time. jmo
     
  21. Even if you have to park in a different spot it is worth it to attend! One advantage of parking outside is you can actually take your car somewhere if need be, not that it sounds like there was a reason to this year (food, beer etc)
     
  22. 117harv
    Joined: Nov 12, 2009
    Posts: 6,589

    117harv
    Member

    They have been using tall wheels for many years on lakes cars, i don't know about street drivin. 20" high clearance wheels and milk truck wheels or really rare 18" wide fives are very popular not just do to their size but their rarity. People who run them are not trying to emulate big chrome wheels that you will see on an suv. Bias ply tires are usually skinny in any size. The wheels being 17' would be a mute point at best, but to side with the show i don't think the taller wheels would have been used on the car of topic.

    Could a car that may be questionable have two or more officials look it over and reach an agreement. I'm not talking about the more obvious things like billet or modern engines.
     
  23. Von Rigg Fink
    Joined: Jun 11, 2007
    Posts: 13,418

    Von Rigg Fink
    Member
    from Garage


    yeah..true..
    but if knowing this before hand and just going for the show..I'd drive my Daily and be set up for a picnic and have all the comforts..

    not to mention..Im paranoid leaving my Hot Rod outside a venue where it may not be watched..Its really hard to walk home as far as i would have to hoof it.

    I have no idea what the security is like at this deal, Ive never been..but heard its an awesome show, so I will be making it someday..one way or another
     
  24. I have been thru all 53 previous posts on this thread and read each one of them carefully. First and foremost I would like to say that your wagon looks great.
    I wasn't there to see what happened or why it got rejected. Our group volunteers to help, but the one job we will not do is the inspections on the cars. I'm saying who am I to say whether of not your ride is worthy of acceptance to a show where I am a participant just like yourself. The one thing I would change if I were "king for a day" is the criteria requirements for the show. As host of a show, if the criteria was that important then I would have people from my staff making the determination of who gets in and who does not. Just my two cents worth and I am fully aware it holds no weight on the board or with the Czars.

    While you might not agree with the criteria used to admit entrance of a vehicle to the show, you must still respect their rules and comply.
    In reality ask yourself, is it really necessary to have your car on the show grounds to have a good time? After all, the car your drive to the event is supposed to be the means by which you get to the event to have a good time and the way to get back home, nothing more. There are no "awards" handed out during the show. Does your car really have to be accepted thru the hallowed gates of Progress City in order to have a good time?
    .
    I have been to every Pileup except #1. I have witnessed the growth at every show since and it has been mindboggling at best.
    Prior to this past weekend, for me, last years Pileup (2009) was one of the best. Not so for many others who made the trek later in the day. After reading all of the negativity after last years event, it almost seemed to be an impossible task to fix all of the problems encountered in Morris in 2009. The Czars have managed to fix at least 95% of the issues from previous pileups with the move to Progress City this year

    There were many vendors on the grounds, a kick ass swap meet, and a bunch of people that I had not seen for 6-12 months. The cruise in in Clinton on Friday night was kick ass. The drive to and from the Pile up is where it is at for the group I traveled with. Where I would have to park once I arrived at the show is secondary.

    Chrome Czars, you guys hit a home run this year, excellent show. One of the best all year long for us.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2010
  25. For any type of show that has strict criteria as the Pile-Up or others do I feel that offering pre-registration is in fact a good idea and a potential time and hassle saver... especially in todays times with the 'net' and all.

    Purely as suggestion... create a downloadable pre-registration file for the show's website that lists all of the required criteria or general things that are allowed or not allowed in a checklist format. If the owner is confident and comfortable with all of the given criteria they could electronically submit the completed file along with pictures of the car back for pre-approval. Once the car is approved they would be emailed a printable "pass" to be presented along with the matching picture of the car/truck/? that allowed them to enter a pre-registered gate at the show pending a quick and final glance over to be sure the car matches the "pass" and picture.

    This might seem like a bit more work than the way it is currently accomplished but if cars that clearly belong in a show don't have to wait around in line with cars that must be inspected it would in theory speed up the inspection process and move the line along faster. This process might also assist in weeding cars out that don't fit the criteria from even trying to get into the show because they would have already previously been told their car does not fit. For those that would choose not to pre-register they would have to wait in line along with everyone else for an in person approval and take their chances on getting in... as it is now.

    Like I said... this is just a suggestion... the Hunnert is a quality show and if anyone thinks it's easy to put on an event like this... you should try it sometime just to see how fun and easy it is... heck... they were having so much fun over the years putting it on... they made it BIGGER.

    :)

    Oh... I totally dig the wagon... but as was stated above... just get an extra set of steel and rubber for "trad" shows and the problem is solved.
     
  26. Rickybop
    Joined: May 23, 2008
    Posts: 9,606

    Rickybop
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    In spite of what I posted, I hear ya Ryan...easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. Can't be easy to run a show. Thanks to the Czars for having one at all.

    Still feel bad for the OP and his family though. Kind've a tough break.
     
  27. ryno
    Joined: Oct 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,470

    ryno
    Member

    yes I'm sure you can email any one of the czars and they'd be happy to let you know.

    i was one of the inspectors at the gate. we had quite a few inspectors, so i decided to do a pre screen walk into the lines and out into the parking lot where the 6 rows where forming up. i mention to quite a few show goers that they're car would NOT be let into the show, for what ever reasons, be it raised white letter tires, wheels, billet, etc etc. i stated that they had about 1 to 1 1/2 hr wait till they reached the entry gates, and then at that point they would be turned away, or if they choose they could get out of line and go park in the general parking area and start enjoying the show now.

    most thought i was dick, and they where going to try anyways, because they have been to the pile for the last 4 years and they know so and so, or they drove 200 miles etc. i myself turned away numerous people that i warned 1 hour previously when they finally reached the gates.

    i don't understand the glory of having your car " in the show"
    for me the high light of the weekend is to see old friends, meet some new, and actually drive my car. if i didn't volunteer to the red shirt army, i would have personally just sleep in, and parked my ride in the regular parking lot, saving some loot to boot.

    i understand gonmad's complaint. and it was very well presented, but they didn't make 17" wheels in 64' plain and simple. as ryan stated, i myself would have been on the fence on this one, and probably let it though. the problem with that is, what kind of expiation would i have for the guy 10 mins earlier in the 62 impala convert with 20" ets that i didn't let in either, or plowboys buddy with the 1940 with 20's?

    if you don't like it, and your pissed off right NOW about it, act fast and send in your 2011 red shirt army volunteer form to any czar, so you too, can make a difference
     
  28. I worked the gate as a volunteer, in fact I was one of the guys running the "Slow line" mostly because we were trying to do our best at keeping within the guidelines the Czars gave us. There were debates among us trying to make the best call.

    I think Bulletproof put it best "I haven't been bitched at this much since my divorce" not everyone is happy to follow the posted rules that we did our best to enforce. If I made a bad call on a car I'm sorry but I hope you came in and enjoyed the rest of the show. If you had a billet steering wheel and digital dash, suck it up and take it like a man.

    You really have to ignore the;
    I drove 10hr,
    my wife has Cancer,
    This car has been in the family for 25 years
    I thrashed for the last week to get this here
    I broke down on the way.
    etc.
    Some people are real, some make it up for sympathy so I just ignore it and did my best. I feel really appreciated by the Czars and that's why I volunteer. I would prefer to have spent my morning scouring the swap meet.
    TZ
     
  29. carbon guy
    Joined: Dec 21, 2007
    Posts: 219

    carbon guy
    Member
    from indy

    Krobe, it's too bad that you slam the Czars and their show, have you been there? If that is your car in your avitar, you'd get right in and be a great addition to the show. I hope your attitude will change and give this show a try.

    I was also thinking about the possibility of sending a few pics of the your car if you might think there is a chance of not getting in or not. Also there are 1000's of pics on here as examples to go by from this year and the past.

    As far as the cars that don't get in the show, it might be nice to have those cars in their own area. I was going to look out in the parking lot a bit, but there were plenty of cars in the show, and it was too hot and too far to walk.

    All in all, it was a great show, and at Clinton, and at Arron's, could there be improvements made, yea, it will come. Just show up and enjoy the show.
     
  30. Sprocket71
    Joined: Sep 22, 2008
    Posts: 57

    Sprocket71
    Member
    from Anna, Tx

    Nice wagon, man. Maybe next year?
     
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