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HUBBA HUBBA my 32-4 Tudor tribute to Gramps

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Runnin shine, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. WAIT TILL YOU START SANDING ALL THOSE LITTLE SLITS!!!!!!
    THEY WILL STILL BE BITCHIN, BUT NOT QUITE AS MUCH AS THEY WERE BEFORE YOU STARTED
     
    barry belair likes this.
  2. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    I was about to make some gussets, then finish welding it all, and only just thought to check if the new mounting position clears
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469209357.085098.jpg
    Yikes! This is at presumed ride height
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469209401.890460.jpg
    The shackle snubs run smack in to the frame.
    I'm looking into cutting them back off and then flipping them around. This still won't work because the shackle boss where they bolt to would be in the same position. If this was a standard 32 frame, this would be an issue. Instead of being 40" wide in the rear my frame is 44" to accommodate the 34's body and tank. To top it off the spring pack would have to sit near flat at this position. I do not know where my pre calculations are off. I might have to make mounts now, damn it!
     
    tb33anda3rd likes this.
  3. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    This is with still three inches of intended travel left
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469213447.672189.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2016
  4. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Bob Hilton's model A with a 40 front spring.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469213670.566605.jpg
    Non-reversed eyes, sitting at ride height, nice shackle angle, and the spring looks much flatter then I would expect mine to get at that angle.
     
  5. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 3,228

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    Hard to see from here but can't you flip them upside down and side for side?
     
  6. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Thanks Matt. If you look again you'll see I have a slew of problems. I cut them off again to flip and switch. This can have the the bolt position right back where it is. In these pics the axle and frame are where I hope it sits settled. With 3.25"-3.5" of remaining suspension travel(this clears won't crawl any rocks) the shackle assembly itself would still end up hitting the frame with over a 1.5" for the axle to still travel upwards.
    Second with this upper shackle bolt at 15" off the ground sharing the same centerline as the axle(30" dia. tyres) would have my spring possible as far as past flat at bottomed out. Sitting right there it looks like my spring pack would be compressed to about four inches tall. The springs themselves are 2.5" thick.
    Back to the drawing board.
     
  7. Move them inside the frame rails and have a narrower spring pack made?
     
  8. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 13,697

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    If that was an option he'd have left them where they were and had a wider one ordered lol.

    You'll figure it out. I'd start with the upside down and flipped side to side, that will get you a couple inches. And the see how you can move it around to get the mounts where you want them.

    Maybe slice an angle off the end and weld them more on the bottom/back quarter of the axle tube. Like 7:00 looking at it from the wheel. And then guesset it?

    I might find a better photo of hiltons set up before I started cutting stuff up also.

    Hmm wonder how much you can heat and bend those around also...
     
    paintslinger805 likes this.
  9. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 13,697

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Drawing it up you might be able to do that with them upright as well
    image.jpeg

    The black is the material you'd remove to mount them lower. It would also bring it closer to the reared however.

    Not a solution but something to get the gears turning
     
    Runnin shine likes this.
  10. Yep heat and bend the shit out of them. I had to heat mine up and bend them to match the angles up from spring to rearend spring perch. I don't see why the problem is there if your using a 40 rearend and a 32-34 rear cross member. A 40 ford is wider than a 34. Maybe I don't see but did you narrow the axel tubes??
     
  11. I think you could have left it and stretched the spring to fit. Lots of guys have run front springs in the back without moving the mounts
     
    Runnin shine likes this.
  12. How do you figure? He's concerned about the mounts hitting the frame (among other things). If you move them inboard of the frame rails, that removes the issue...
     
    Runnin shine likes this.
  13. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Chris that's what I thought but I didn't think I could stretch 4-5"?
    Have I made a huge mistake?
     
  14. Yea he's gonna have to either move the perches inside the frame rails or weld them back where they go and stretch the spring almost flat to use. It's because of the spring he is using is narrower than the stock 32-34 rear spring. I'm running a 40 rearend with a32 rear spring. But his frame in the rear is also wider than a 32. Also don't forget about the way the rearend moves riding down the road. Maybe you can weld them inside the frame rails then heat them up and bend them straight to line up with the spring. Make sure if you do put them inside the rails that you give yourself enough room for the rearend to move up and down.
     
  15. Wyatt you can stretch the spring pretty far iv seen guys run them damn near flat. It will also help lower the car to. There will be still a lots of strength coming from the rest of the spring pack.
     
    Runnin shine likes this.
  16. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 3,114

    Corn Fed
    Member

    I have an idea. Hopefully I will be able to attach my sketch. If not, I'll try to PM it to you.
     

    Attached Files:

    Tim_with_a_T and Runnin shine like this.
  17. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    I wonder if can move them just out of the frame?
    This would be about 44.750" wide. They where 46.5 on the axle stock, I think it's a 1946 axle?
    I don't know how much you can stretch the spring. When it apart I can get the first to to go damn near flat easy but when you start assembling the pack back together wouldn't have a ton of pressure on it if I could even get it to go together.
    Still one of my concerns now is having the mounts at the right height to allow for a certain amount of lowness.
    My intended goal was a stance with about 3-4" between the tire and well opening when viewed from the side of the car.
     
  18. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Wow Chris! This might be the ticket! And it can still look Ford'esc.
    Have you seen this done before?
     
  19. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 3,114

    Corn Fed
    Member

    Be careful with the idea ... that might get the car too low!!!
     
  20. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    I just quickly checked while the kids were filling the inflatable pool. It will lower the top shackle bolt almost 3" this is awesome and the way I need to go. Now if I could find out how flat is allowable for the spring and how much you can pull it from relaxed we'd be getting somewhere.
     
  21. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 3,114

    Corn Fed
    Member

    I've never seen it done before. It just came to me. But I'd bet sometime in the past 80 years someone's tried it.
     
  22. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 13,697

    Tim
    Member
    from KCMO

    Lol sorry should have clarified.

    If he's trying to use no money and stay with stock ford stuff then spending money and using an after market leaf would fall under not an option.
     
  23. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    As I'm calming down, taking in all your advice, and thinking about. Apposed to when this afternoon I freaked out when I just barely caught this miscalculation, this is all fixable.
    I think I need to measure one of my 32-34 rear springs then the 34's axle assemble out back. This should show how much Ford had them tensioned in there right?
     
  24. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Tim both my springs for Hubba Hubba are new Posies style el' cheapos. I purchased these based on my calculations I truly thought to be thorough. I bought in to the "40 front" style swap based on budget and ride height quests that add switching to a axle with the straight shackle mounts instead of 32-34 angled.
    But yes I don't want to buy any new springs now. I was ok with replacing these turds once it was on the road and maybe needed adjustment.
    You just know I need a chrome one out frontlol.
     
    Tim likes this.
  25. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Ok so here is what I have as a base line... My stock 34 axle has a shackle mount spacing of 48.5" . The stock 34 spring off the car still assembled measures 43.5" center to center width. With the shackles having a combined width of 3". So 43.5 + 3= 46.5 subtracted from the 48.5 leaves 2" that the spring would be stretched stock.
    So with my 36 front springs 38.5" + 3 for shackles and 2" of stretch I need a spacing of 43.5" shackle mount centers. (This width would've almost cleared my frame)
    Remember again I stated that at my current set up and planned ride height the spring would be practically flat.
    Now I have to see if I can pull it further to have it lower and will this result in a initial stiff tall ride that would allow for softening and lowering upon completion. I'm afraid of the opposite of having to stiffen it back up.
    If I do the mounts as corn fed described it have the spring roughly 3" lower than what I had and 5.5" lower than the stock 34 axle. This with my 1" shorter spring should set the rear of the car 6.5" lower than stock leaving weight out of the equation at the moment. I'm afraid this still doesn't get me in the low crowd.
     
  26. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    Thanks @Corn Fed again!
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469334993.216042.jpg
    Custom jig to keep everything true
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335026.045002.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335061.727044.jpg
    Take the welding serious here, you don't want your axle falling out
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335119.039546.jpg
    This takes for ever to set up. I have calculated the pinion angle to some degree. Although the shackles matched the drive shaft angle I still had to take the cross members spring surface angle and the axle being swung up from a stock location into consideration.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335327.439907.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335356.167794.jpg
    I really like this set up. I'm actually glad that the old way didn't work out.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335414.213542.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469335431.156075.jpg
    I believe this time around the spring is going to work. I got too tired to bother to find out, I've been thinking hard for over 24 hours straight on this.
    I'll get it tested tomorrow. If it's cool I'll make some gusset plates and finish welding them on. I want to make double, hell triple sure this isn't going to break.
    Did I mention I think this is really cool?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  27. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    I'm actually having a good time compared to the other day. The spring seems to be working out so far.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469416492.277736.jpg
    I was pretty nervous tightening the stack down and I'm only stretching the spring a little over a inch and a half.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469416585.325702.jpg
    There is 6.5" of travel I'm hoping to get it set up in the end to sit with 3 to 3.5" before bottoming. I wish someone would chime in with how much they have with a similarly low beast.
    I'm going to take it back apart to check it with one leaf and a spacer to see the shackle angles through the travel. I'm still not out of the woods yet
     
  28. rmcroadster
    Joined: Sep 28, 2014
    Posts: 26

    rmcroadster
    Member

    Are the shackles horizontal? Can one rotate down and the other up when the spring deflects? What happens if it does, diff moves sideways? On mine slightly ot project I have tried to ensure the spring length is such that both are below horizontal to ensure the spring deflection is where I want it. Time will tell if I ever get it finished.
    Matthew
     
    Runnin shine likes this.
  29. dumprat
    Joined: Dec 27, 2006
    Posts: 3,228

    dumprat
    Member
    from b.c.

    No they can't flip one up and one down. Because of the triangular shape of the wishbone. Slit rear bones might.
     
  30. Runnin shine
    Joined: Apr 12, 2013
    Posts: 3,330

    Runnin shine
    Member

    It works!
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469478026.844797.jpg
    Here is the first and second spring only installed with a wood spacer. This makes the "spring" soft enough to jack the rear end up with just a frame on top and get the simulated ride height.
    I have a nice shackle angle. This is a relief for I've began to question my judgement lately. I have around 6" suspension travel and the plan is to get it adjusted out when finished to rely on 3.5" before bottoming.
    Because @dumprat I cut these shock mounts like so to weld on to the bottom of the axle tube
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469478694.542564.jpg
    Then made these gusset plates for the shackle mounts
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469478737.793551.jpg
    Test fitting
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1469478754.303500.jpg
    The little fin portion gets bent over to follow the I-beam. Plus I have to drill out these marked holes to keep @383duece interested in my build. I will try to do the welding tonight. Check back later folks.
     

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