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Technical Howling noise on deceleration ...?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Baumi, May 31, 2019.

  1. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    image.jpeg image.jpeg Yesterday we left home for a ten hour drive down to Croatia . I have put lots of miles on my 55 Chevy 210 with 235/3 speed OD , but yesterday it developed a brandnew noise: Coasting in any gear will sometimes result in a screeching or howling noise, until the OD goes out and into freewheeling at about 20 mph. Sometimes it is quiet in deceleration just as usual. I had a feeling it could be the sprag or freewheeling thingy in the BW OD . But cruising the Croatian coast I heard the noise even with the OD lever pulled out. My plan is to find a shop with a lift down here and see what I find... I will check fluid levels,look for back lash on pinion and wiggle the u-joints...
    What else do you think I could do?
     
    Stogy likes this.
  2. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,002

    BJR
    Member

    Front bearing in the transmission will do that.
     
    Baumi likes this.
  3. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,722

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    I had a similar noise years ago with a 9" when it wasn't under load and coasting. It turned out that one of the pinion bearings had collapsed.
     
    Baumi likes this.
  4. Old car books used to have a rear-end diagnostic chart in them. It covered all conditions, finding one of those would be a good start.
     
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  5. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 14,385

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm not much help but I'll throw in some fan support that all works out well in finding the culprit...I take it its a 3 on the tree standard transmission correct to be clear?...Fluid levels is really good to check as standards and the rear ends don't have dipsticks...
     
    Baumi likes this.
  6. VANDENPLAS
    Joined: Dec 14, 2009
    Posts: 2,028

    VANDENPLAS
    Member

    Input bearing in transmission will do this
    Possibly our put bearing but not likely

    Diff bearings.


    How old is the oil in the trans and torque tube/ diff?
    Could be the oil overheated and broke down if it’s old or wrong type.

    Good luck keep us posted
     
  7. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    image.jpeg Just drove down to the beach and found a good parts car... Hahahahhahaha
    I wonder if my buddy would notice if I swapped rearends....
    Stogy , I will limp it home somehow, that'll work. Just drove a couple miles and it feels very transmission related. Rearend is quiet like a sleeping baby . But the trans ' feels' rougher than normal... We'll see!
     
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  8. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,844

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I need a bit of education, I'm not real familiar with that era Chevy, but were they still using a torque tube? I thought that ended in 53 or 54 on the Chevy cars.
     
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  9. 427 sleeper
    Joined: Mar 8, 2017
    Posts: 769

    427 sleeper
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You're correct, '54 was the last year for torque tubes in Chevy cars.
     
    Stogy likes this.
  10. Does it happen in high gear only, or in any forward gear? Does the sound change when you depress the clutch pedal? Do you have a bit of free-play in the clutch pedal when the clutch is fully engaged?
     
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  11. Pinion nut like to back off easily for one reason or another. When this happens pinion gets pulled into ring gear (creating a different gear pattern) during coast. Let it go to long and pinion will come in contact with carrier or worse.

    This is a posi unit but an open carrier can get marked up as well.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 8,063

    manyolcars

    That happened to me on a 300 mile trip. I learned to keep the gas pedal down when slowing down and got home ok. Next morning I was sleepy on the way to work and didn't remember. Got one block and the third member exploded. Greasy cast iron parts all over the road. Yes the pinion nut had backed off
     
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  13. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,970

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    The OD unit has a separate oil supply sump from the main trans case. It has it’s own fill plug. Be certain the OD unit is topped off with gear oil too.
     
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  14. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Any forward gear will do it. If I give it a little gas during coasting the noise disappears. So it is certainly depending in the load. And It feels like the OD sometimes doesn't Release as easily as it used to.

    And yes the clutch has enough slack in it. So I suppose it is not clutch related...
     
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  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,339

    squirrel
    Member

    on those rear ends, the pinion bearings will spin on the pinion, and eventually wear away the end of the crush sleeve and/or the end of the yoke, releasing preload on the nut that holds the yoke to the pinion. Then those bad scenarios will happen.

    But overdrives and transmissions also have their share of problems...

    so I expect you're going to have to get under there and do some poking around. It won't be easy for us to diagnose it from the other side of the world.
     
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  16. anthony myrick
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 5,043

    anthony myrick
    Member

    mine did it
    the pinion was loose
    tightened it up and cruised
    check for excessive play on the rear yoke and on the tail shaft of the trans first
     
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  17. oldiron 440
    Joined: Dec 12, 2018
    Posts: 1,272

    oldiron 440
    Member

    I had a Willis pick up with the Dana 44 and 4.1 gears, every once in a while the pinion nut would come loose and it would howl on deceleration.
     
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  18. Of every 55-64 3rd member that I've opened, that's the case. Agree, going to have to look at both rear and trans. Rear is super easy to find an answer quickly without disassembly as a starting point.
     
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  19. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    image.jpeg image.jpeg image.jpeg Being the roadside/ shade tree mechanic that I am , I found myself a proper croatian car lift (tm) and crawled under to wiggle and see... Ok, here is what I found: the pinion nut is tight and the pinion has neither radial or axial play. The transmisson output shaft is tight too, but the rear seal is totally shot and I doubt there is much oil left in the Trans or OD. I won't be able to find a new rear seal here in Croatia. I will just fill both transmission and OD to the maximum and keep going. I have a 2nd 3 spd OD transmission at home, so I can keep the car driveable while I will be rebuilding this one.
    Anyway, thank you all for your awesome help and ideas! You guys a great!
     
  20. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    image.jpeg image.jpeg Another update from our trip through Croatia.
    We were declining a very steep hill down to the ferry to Cres island, it is an 18% slope and I had to use 2nd gear to help the brakes a bit. The noise was unbearable. So I drove down there just on drum brakes, which did a great Job btw. Anyway, first chance after the ferry I found myself another croatian car hoist, pulled the driveshaft and voila, the pinion was wiggling like crazy. Three days ago I did just the same but the pinion must have been in a bind or something , cause I could swear it was tight, you know I never ever screw up, hahaaa. Anyway, now that it's tightend again the rearend is quiet and smooth . Thank you all for helping me out all the time for all those years. Without you I'd be going in vacation in a late model, and WHO would want that??? Hahahaha
    I'll still pull the diff and clean out the bearings and axle housing when I'm back home, because I think there might be some shrapnel or debris considering the havoc that this thing was wrecking .Plus I'll be replaceing the tailhousing seal on the trans.
    My girlfriend Dani caught me in shorts under the Chevy... But I caught her too! Hahahahaaa
    She probably could have a normal guy, but I won't tell her.
     
  21. JFK Killer
    Joined: Sep 3, 2017
    Posts: 49

    JFK Killer

  22. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,002

    BJR
    Member

    Thanks for posting the solution to the noise. Keep having fun with your car.
     
  23. J. A. Miller
    Joined: Dec 30, 2010
    Posts: 1,275

    J. A. Miller
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Central NY

    Glad you found the problem.
    Have a safe rest of your trip!
     
  24. Frankie47
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 1,725

    Frankie47
    Member
    from omaha ne.

    Why does his location make it harder? I don't get it. If someone from say Rhode Island had the same problem or even LA which is closer to AZ would that make it easier for you to diagnose over the internet... you still won't be able to look at it in person.
     
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  25. KJSR
    Joined: Mar 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,186

    KJSR
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Utah
    1. Utah HAMBers

    Sorry about your troubles but I'm jealous......I loved Croatia. We were deployed in Bosnia and made the trip to Split. It was incredible. Good luck man
     
  26. When you're not crawling around under the car, be sure to take more pictures of your trip to share here. :cool: This is a part of the world that most of us will never get to make a "road trip" thru. Just make sure to have a cool old car in the photo somewhere to keep it on-topic. :D
     
  27. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Your wish is my order!
    Hahahah, yes...It's beautiful here, tiny little villages down by the sea, fresh seafood, good beer and wine and endless winding backroads.... People are extremely nice and helpful. But it's mit crowded. Just perfect for our old cars!
    Bay of Plombin with Cres Island in the background
    image.jpeg
    Cres Island watching east, you can see Krk island in the distance
    image.jpeg
    The Bay of Valun , where we are staying right now
    image.jpeg image.jpeg
     
  28. B.A.KING
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 3,554

    B.A.KING
    Member

    In the pic of your girlfriend in the car, looks like a giant bug has her pinned down...........On the pinion nut, I was always told to take a punch and "stake" the top part of nut to keep it from backing off.
    Keep the pics coming!!!!!
     
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  29. Baumi
    Joined: Jan 28, 2003
    Posts: 2,237

    Baumi
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    image.jpeg Hahahha, I'll tell her that. She has got a 52 suburban I'm just fixing up for her and that she wants to drive down here next year. We will see, she is already kickin my ass and telling me to hurry up....
    I'll certainly torque and punch the pinion nut again when I'm back home. My feeling is that a fluid change and good wash is in order for the rear pumpkin. Someone posted a Chevy pumpkin in an earlier post with pinion marks on the ring gear carrier. Mine probably looks just like that now....
    Btw, we are just sitting up on the hill behind our little cheap Apartment and are having a few cold ones.... The view is amazing....
     
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  30. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 44,339

    squirrel
    Member

    You might want to do a little bit more work on that pinion nut than just torquing and staking it....as I mentioned before, the crush sleeve is likely worn on the ends, so when you tighten the nut to the needed torque, it will have too much pinion bearing preload. And you also need to make sure the end of the yoke isn't worn away too far, which will make the yoke "bottom out" on the pinion splines. And it might be a good idea to replace the nut, if you can find a new one, they are a special lock nut.

    It's up to you, though.
     
    Baumi likes this.

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