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Technical ***How was your summer? The Sept 2014 Banger Meet***

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Crazydaddyo, Sep 2, 2014.

  1. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    Here is the banger link list .


    For the HAMB banger newbies, here are some links to a lot of banger info:

    Flat Ernie maintains the monthly link list. Every month is listed:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=161498



    Banger basics. another info link list:

    http://www.fordgarage.com/

    http://www.plucks329s.org/index.htm

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=251717

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42480

    Post #105 of link below shows flywheel lightening dimensions
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=6

    Model B rod bearing insert numbers
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6992484#post6992484


    Engine tuning with a Vacuum gauge
    http://www.centuryperformance.com/tuning-with-a-vacuum-gauge-spg-148.html

    Adjusting dual Strombergs:
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6638461#post6638461

    Helpful Model A tools and tips:

    http://www.maurer-markus.ch/ford_a/tipps.index.en.html

    Gary in MN's late model Malory distributor conversion for A/B engine:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9147025&postcount=109

    Elrod's stuck head tech:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218487

    Model A generator to alternator conversion:

    http://ejwhitneyco.com/automotive.html

    Gear ratio / speed and RPM calculator:

    http://www.accuautoparts.com/calculator.php


    Model A master cylinder mounting bracket ideas:

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...73#post4953173

    Go here to read the 1931 edition of Harry Ricardo's book "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine"

    http://www.scribd.com/full/40610101?access_key=key-w2bcjicdancrnxypd05


    Chevy Banger Stuff

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=463465

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/22469332/The-High-Speed-Internal-Combustion-Engine-Ricardo-1931

    Post 198 starts a great discussion of the shape of a flat head combustion chamber

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470853&page=10

    Maybe these links should be posted early in each months meeting.

    If anyone knows of more, please post them.
     
  2. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,287

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    Tuned up the banger for another run at the Gorgetown Hill Climb next week.
     
  3. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,994

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    Just dig these up...

    [​IMG]

    -RayDay Seattle 8.3:1 Aluminum Head
    -Winfield Manifold
    -Cyclone Winfield to Stromberg adapter (he ran a 97, which I also got)

    I got the pile, and a few more things, localy from Navy vet. As he told the story, in 1952, when he was stationed in Alameda, he bought a used Hot Rodded Roadster Pickup. He described it as, "loud, with no top, and barely a windshield." He used the pickup as his only vehicle then until he got out of the Navy in 1956.
    Him and a buddy packed up everything in it and drove it back from Alameda to Seattle with only gas money in their pockets. Somewhere in Oregon or Northern California, the Babbitt let go on the #3 rod, so they pulled the plug on that cylinder to keep going. Two young guys, with no money, in a hot rod, popping and missing through every town. He said he didn't know how they didn't get arrested for vagrancy, "those small town cops didn't take kindly."
    When he made it home to Seattle, he fixed the car and put it up for sale. The "collector" that bought it didn't want any of the "hot rod" stuff, so he put stock parts back on and all these parts sat in his garage, from 1956 until last Friday.
    Now we are gonna see how long my babbit lasts...
     
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  4. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,994

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    Here's some more detailed pics of the head:

    [​IMG]

    Looks like the head uses Winfield type combustion chambers, that were filled with weld and then ground to match between the four. Based on the crosshatch on the mounting surface, I'm pretty sure the head is un-machined and un-messed-with.

    Oddly, unlike a winfield head, this thing doesn't use the common 3/8" reach plugs...

    [​IMG]

    ...Looks like it was intended for 1/2" or 7/16" reach plugs:

    [​IMG]

    Now, the gentleman who sold me the parts said that he bought his roadster pickup used, with this head on it. Anyone know the history of this thing. I know RayDay was around and kicking in the 1930's from ads. They advertized pistons and equipment for "Passenger Cars, Racing Cars, Trucks, and Busses". I can't find any real history on this head specifically though...
     
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  5. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,741

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Being from Tacoma and having that head made in Seattle is way to cool.
     
  6. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,994

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    Yup, I love a little local flavor when I can get my hands on it.

    I find it funny that a guy from Seattle bought a Hot Rod, ostensibly built in California, with speed parts from Seattle, only to bring them back to Seattle so he could sell them to a guy in Tacoma almost 60 years later.
     
  7. Have you measured the head to see if it hasn't been milled? In the 40's and early 50's it was pretty common to have a "milled and filled" head. There were shops that specialized in this. I have a cast iron Winfield "crowsfoot" that has been milled .060 and filled.
     
  8. RainierHooker
    Joined: Dec 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,994

    RainierHooker
    Member
    from Tacoma, WA

    I haven't done any measurements, yet. I don't think that the head has been milled at all. There is a nice well-defined crosshatch on the mating surface, and the fly-cuts are nice and deep, with rounded edges. Tonight I'll get out the play-doh, figure out the chamber sizes and do some maths to confirm what exactly the Compression is...
     
  9. Last week, I got my Model A motor back running again after blowing a head gasket a couple weeks ago. I bought the motor already built and in another A about four years ago. It has the Lion head III and a weber, insert bearings, plus more, etc. per the seller back then.

    I only got it running in May and am slowly putting some miles on it. I had it on I-280 at maybe 50 mph in OD when it blew and I was able to limp down hill to home without apparent overheating. But when the head was off, I learned it has four sleeved cylinders and the front and rear sleeves were a bit low, maybe up to twenty thousands, compared to being flush with the top of the block. The gasket blowout was at the very front of the motor, not between cylinders. The biggest sleeve 'drop' was at the back cylinder, but the gasket held there. Using a B head gasket per Lionhead recommendation. The car is a driver, not a racer, but I expect I will drive it at normal highway speeds as I did with my A in the sixties, particularly since it has the F150 OD tranny.

    My question is, am I likely to have continuous head gasket failures due to the low sleeves. My initial thought is the failure could well be simply due to my failure to retorque the heads often enough on a new motor/head gasket. Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks.
     
  10. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,741

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would be concerned about why your sleeves are below the deck. In my experience the sleeves are installed proud and then faced off flush with the deck. Does your gasket have a "Fire ring" embossed in it? Like at the crimp around the cylinder. Should the sleeve be sealing against the gasket at the crimp and not because the sleeve is down? If so that may be why the gasket let go. Next time your cruising 280 if you get to San Mateo and need help I'm in the phone book.
     
  11. johnneilson
    Joined: Apr 12, 2011
    Posts: 932

    johnneilson
    Member

    Thanks Dan, checking in.

    John
     
  12. Thanks Rich,

    I did not study much, but think the old is same as new, Snyder's premium head gasket (same Gn logo). My quick look was that sealing surface was outside the depressed sleeve area. My regular mechanic did the replacement job. I just checked and found that the old gasket's compression chamber crimped seal area is within 0.004" of the same at all areas, all cylinders, indicating to me the low sleeve probably did not play a major roll in the initial failure

    But the low sleeve was what I did not expect. I had thought it was normally done as you stated. I know nothing about the builder except they are in the central valley.

    Eventually, I just want to be able to go on trips without worry after I get through the shakedown/break-in period. Thanks.
     
  13. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    50 mph in OD?
    What RPM are to running at that speed?
    Probably too low IMHO. Lugging will kill the engine and might be a cause.
    What was the water temp when it blew?
    I know mine heats up if driven too long under that kind of load.

    .
     
  14. Crazydaddyo,
    No tach, but it did not feel like it was lugging. That was the fastest it had been to date, so it got into high gear for a few minutes or so. It was level to slight down slope, not a heavy load. Highest temp this drive was 180, Walker radiator, 180 thermostat. I have not made a chart on speed vs. RPMs yet, or even checked the speedometer for accuracy. Speedo is rebuilt '28 Chrysler, driveshaft speedo gear is for 3.78 gears, 30" tires.
     
  15. colinsmithson
    Joined: Jan 27, 2013
    Posts: 383

    colinsmithson
    Member

    Russ B
    sleaves are normally installed with a step in bottom of the bore so it is impossible for them to move down
    have seem a big $ B engine built by well know flathead company drop a sleave No step break the con rod, crank and the block big $ down the drain
    I would be looking more in to why your sleaves have moved
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2014
  16. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,741

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Years ago i ran a 270 GMC in my coup at Bonneville and around. In time it needed a sleeve. Ted Gotelli bored it and installed the sleeve. It got stuck about 3/32 before reaching the step. So we ran it like that and it worked fine. But i didn't like it. It may have moved some day. That's about the only way i can think of sleeves being down the hole. That engine may want new sleeves.
     
  17. anyone know where I can get a rebuild kit for a winfield carb?
     
  18. Looking for a higher compression head, dual intake, a pair of Stromberg 81`s and a side plate for a "B" motor.
    Not much in the classifieds.
     
  19. I've for a dual Thomas intake I would let go.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  20. ROCKER77
    Joined: Jun 30, 2008
    Posts: 489

    ROCKER77
    Member

    We need to have our own classified section for bangers.
     
  21. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member


    I now a guy here in Calif. that sells kits. The info is at home I'll post it later tonight.

    .
     
  22. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I have a Thomas head with a 140 cc combustion chamber I would let go. Probably have an extra side cover for a B that I could part with too.

    .
     
  23. Agreed!!
     
  24. Thanks. New to the banger world and navigating my way through lots of reading.
     
  25. Is all you need the bowl gasket ? I may have an extra. I have a lot of various base gaskets Barry included one of each size in his kits. One thing about some of the base gaskets, you may have to try to find best location on studs and then trim to bore.
     
  26. Thanks guys, I got a hold of Barry Bowyer today and will be sending a check off for him for 2 kits. Thanks again! I was just being impatient.

    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  27. RussTee
    Joined: Mar 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,196

    RussTee
    Member

    Great to see members helping each other out.:)
     
  28. I second on the banger classified.

    Streetrods are drivin' by Chevy, Hotrods are powered by Ford!
     
  29. Crazydaddyo
    Joined: Apr 6, 2008
    Posts: 3,130

    Crazydaddyo
    Member

    I think it would be slow moving. Not many of us like to let go of what we have painstakingly hoarded.
    :D:rolleyes:;)
    .
     
  30. denis4x4
    Joined: Apr 23, 2005
    Posts: 3,287

    denis4x4
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Colorado

    I've had better luck buying and selling on the Fordbarn classifieds.
     

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