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Technical How to trigger HEI using stock points dist?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by turboroadster, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,546

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Way off topic, but the ignition module on my old Honda 110 ATC crapped out about 15 years ago, and instead of paying the price for the Honda piece, wired in an HEI module I had in the used electronic parts drawer. Still running today.
     
    turboroadster likes this.
  2. 1great40
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 445

    1great40
    Member
    from Walpole MA

    I'm not sure why you think the solid core wires will not work with the Ignitor 2. The wires are on the secondary side of the circuit and have nothing to do with what drives the coil but possibly the coil wouldn't be happy with the solid wires.
     
  3. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    That's what I'm trying to figure out. 25 years ago I put HEI guts in a points Chevy distributor and used an Accel super coil. I had no clue about matching resistance back then and it's run great ever since. But there are no points to worry about burning in that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  4. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    That's what it says on their web site.
    http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/ignitor2/default.aspx

    I wouldn't believe it but they put it in red letters. :)
     
  5. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 15,893

    gimpyshotrods
    Member

    Perhaps you can ask @hotroddon.

    I believe that it is the RF interference that is the issue.
     
  6. The issue with Solid core wires has to to with EMI, solid cores tend to "Leak" a lot of "noise" and that can kill a module
     
  7. Torana68
    Joined: Jan 28, 2008
    Posts: 1,041

    Torana68
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Australia

    is there an older looking coil we can use with these rather than those funky looking new things?
     
  8. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    You should be able to run any coil that has the correct resistance. If it's .5 ohm as the stock HEI coil it might be hard to find in a round coil. As I understand it, the module takes the current load normally supported by the points, so you should be able to use a .5 ohm coil, which may contribute to the better spark of the HEI. But I'm not sure. Also don't know if using the HEI module with a typical 4 ohm points coil/ballast resistor is of any benefit.
     
  9. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Squirrel, if you're done beating me up on my oil filter setup I need some clarification with this. :)

    I replaced the 4 ohm coil I was running (hard starting, mid-range miss) with a 1.7 ohm coil and ballast resistor. Again very hard starting and miss, but by jumpering around the resistor it starts right up and the miss is gone. I don't know why this is happening, other than I set the (dual) points with a feeler gauge, not sure how to put a dwell meter on it but they are in factory spec.

    Anyway I decided to try the HEI module using your diagram in post 2, just a jumpered test run. Fired right up but sounded retarded, a timing light confirmed so. I found this thorough explanation of an HEI/points setup on the 'net.

    http://www.geocities.ws/loudgpz/GPZheiModForPoints.html

    In the overview section, he states that with the HEI module the points close instead of opening to trigger the spark. That would account for the change in timing, no?

    Another thing, he incorporates a transistor in the circuit in addition to the resistor. What is the purpose of that?

    Lastly, he recommends not less than 2.4 ohms primary resistance, yet most HEI troubleshooting info says resistance on the stock coil is under 1 ohm. Why the 2.4 limit?

    1004161153[1].jpg
     
  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 41,993

    squirrel
    Member

    good questions! I don't know all the answers. The transistor may be there for increased reliability, maybe to deal with contact bounce, or ???. It does not seem to be there to invert the signal.

    The timing being off could well be because the HEI module triggers on the points closing.


    (the oil filter thing...I'm trying to get you to see that you may not need to have one, strange as that may sound. It could save you some work....you're welcome to ignore me at any time)
     
  11. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    OK thanks. I think I'll wire it up, retime and run it for awhile. I have been running an HEI with one of those big yellow Accel super coils and no ballast resistor for about 25 years on my Chevy. It's .7 ohm so I don't get the 2.4 ohm thing. FWIW here is a very technical paper on HEI and coils that I don't begin to understand.

    http://cyberdave.org/HEICoilInfo.html
     
  12. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I have been running the HEI setup per Squirrel's diagram above for a few weeks, until last night.. Leaving auto body class it died abruptly still on the school grounds. I pulled the coil wire, held it and cranked it over, no spark, but when I turned the key off it zapped me. A friend flat towed me home.

    Today I reverted back to non HEI and it ran. Put the HEI back in and no start, but when I turned the key off it fired once.

    I tried replacing the resistor with a spare, no help. Maybe it's a symptom of a bad module?

    Maybe it's Pertronix time..
     
  13. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 41,993

    squirrel
    Member

    I'm thinking that points are better than we want to admit....compared to electronics....

    (I put/left points in the last several I've built, they seem to work ok, mostly)
     
  14. Los_Control
    Joined: Oct 7, 2016
    Posts: 498

    Los_Control
    Member
    from TX

    Some say that you can take a slant 6 dizzy, and change the drive shaft from the flat 6 distributor and install it on the slant 6 distributor and use it.
    I have read about it and thought would be the way to go.
    I am going to stick with the points for awhile yet myself.
     
  15. Hnstray
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 10,232

    Hnstray
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Quincy, IL

    See the link in Post #30 of this thread that will take you to another thread .........shows how to do that.

    Ray
     
  16. 1great40
    Joined: Jan 1, 2008
    Posts: 445

    1great40
    Member
    from Walpole MA

    EMI! I wasn't thinking of that when I commented. It makes sense that the interference radiated by the non resistor wires can foul up the module.
     
  17. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 5,727

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Hmm, I have solid core wires, maybe that hurt my HEI module but I did read elsewhere that guys run HEIs with solid core.
     

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