Register now to get rid of these ads!

Technical How to trigger HEI using stock points dist?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by turboroadster, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. I have searched every combination I could think of and havent found a definite schematic or written verbiage of how to use an HEI module with my points distributor. I have a 51 ply. flat 6 I am converting over to 12 volt and want/need electronic ignition.
    I am more than sure its been covered, just can't find it.
    Thanks
    Timothy
     
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I doubt you need electronic ignition. I guess if you want it, you can use an HEI module to get it...

    Hei.jpg
     
  3. fsae0607
    Joined: Apr 3, 2012
    Posts: 870

    fsae0607
    Member

    Try a Pertronix kit. It'll fit into your stock distributor.
     
    hrm2k likes this.
  4. Thanks Jim, and yes, I need it, tired of dicking with the points, there is modern technology (HEI) available that will produce a much hotter spark for a more efficient running engine, so I am gonna give it to the old plymouth. The diagram you posted is perfect, thanks so much!
     
    Register now to get rid of these ads!

  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    You're welcome! I have HEI in a couple of mine, MSD in another and plain old points in the one that is really fast. My kids have a couple old ones with points, they don't seem to have any trouble. Let us know how the HEI module works out...looks like a cheap way to get points to last forever. I wonder if you need to disconnect the condenser on the distributor? maybe you could try it with and without.
     
    Kan Kustom and volvobrynk like this.
  6. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 7,865

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    An old Chrysler module ( 1972 - 80s?) will work with points and so will a Ford thick film module from the 90s. Use the Ford module with heat sink off a Cougar, Tbird, Aerostar, or Probe. Any one will do but those ones have the cool finned heat sink and mount by the rad support, most of them go on the distributor but they are the same module.

    Get the Ford coil and wiring harness and you will have a super hot ignition. I don't know if a later distributor cap will fit your distributor. They have insulating ridges on the inside. You can gap your plugs wider but unless you have the ridged cap, don't go too wide.

    MSD will work with points too.

    Go electronic and the points will not wear, as they only act as a trigger and carry hardly any current. You don't need a condenser, and only need to check the dwell and timing once a year if that, in case the rubbing block has worn a bit.
     
  7. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 4,451

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Sounds good to me too (flathead crab dual point). What coil impedance do you use and what is a "pull up resistor"?
     
  8. oldolds
    Joined: Oct 18, 2010
    Posts: 2,142

    oldolds
    Member

    Could we see wiring diagrams if these? I remember the Mopar setup was the hot ticket at one time.
     
  9. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 399

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

  10. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    A pull up resistor is just a resistor, like you used to be able to buy at Radio Shack before they closed.

    The "pull up" thing is what it does in the circuit...it pulls up the voltage, until the points close. Electronic Engineer types understand what that means. It's ok if you don't understand it, just get a 1000 ohm (1 K ohm) resistor, probably 1/4 or 1/2 watt would be big enough.
     
    Kan Kustom likes this.
  11. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 7,865

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    How to wire the module

    [​IMG]

    Here is what one looks like with heat sink

    [​IMG]
     
    turboroadster likes this.
  12. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Tman and turboroadster like this.
  13. ok, so I checked my chebby distributor stash and every one has been robbed of the hei module. rockauto has em cheaper than amazon prime but now I am back to square one, so a new question arises. I have to buy a module, either ford or gm and they both wire in easy peasy, so the question is, which of the two is hotter/better ignition?
     
  14. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would consider ease of installation to be more important than "hotter/better". Which one looks better to you?

    Since it's a Mopar, you ought to not ruin it with Ford or GM parts....you ought to suffer through a Mopar ignition amp installation. :)
     
    turboroadster likes this.
  15. doinbad
    Joined: Sep 17, 2012
    Posts: 319

    doinbad
    Member
    from celina tn

    I have done this on a studebaker flat six I had in a model a sedan used the mopar box got the diagram out of a 70s motor manual you have to set points as close as you can get them just to brake the circuit and take out the condenser
     
  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 7,865

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I think the Ford is the hottest, it will throw a spark 3 or 4 inches long in open air. I tested it on 6 different coils, American japanese and german, and the stock Ford coil was best. The one with the finned heat sink looks cool, and will stay cool if you put up ahead of the rad where it gets some cool air.

    Chrysler module is the oldest design, primitive basically 1960s electronics, but the most bulletproof.

    Chev is the smallest and cheapest. Also ugliest. Should be mounted on an aluminum heat sink for long life.

    MSD in theory should be excellent, I have not tried one. I have one but it is so big and bulky I find the others easier to fit. This may not be a problem in a wide open engine bay like yours.

    Really you can use any of them, the Chrysler and Ford would be easiest to fit and are available at any junk yard. Chev cheapest and easiest to find. MSD is nice, and easy to install, and can be ordered from Summit.
     
  17. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 1,848

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    Squirrel you are a treasure trove of information.
     
    turboroadster likes this.
  18. shivasdad
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 399

    shivasdad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Texas

  19. I hear ya Squirrel! My Mopar would probably toast the gm and ford modules anyways in protest.
     
  20. i just changed my chrysler flathead over to 12v negative ground and used a Pertronix module, quick and easy! BOLT IN!;)
     
  21. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 4,451

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca


    Going to give this a whirl today with an HEI module since I have a couple. We still have Radio Shack and I got a 1K ohm, 1 watt resistor (actually 5 of them for a buck fifty), that should work for the pull up, no?

    On the diagram in post 2 it still shows a ballast resistor. I'm pretty sure I have run HEI with full system voltage (12-14), do I still need it with the points?

    How low resistance of a coil can I run?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  22. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,504

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I use a single point with MSD all the time, have successfully used it on N/A 750+hp applications. Its my preferred set-up. Most expensive of the listed "modules" though, but readily adapts to a two-step, rev limiter or other race oriented options, not that that matters here . I have heard the "Summit" branded ignition boxes are made by MSD, FWIW.
    https://www.summitracing.com/int/search/part-type/ignition-boxes?N=400304
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  23. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 4,451

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    What's with all the extra wires on this HEI?

    Still need to know what primary resistance I'm after with 1001161452[1].jpg HEI and points..
     
  24. Personally I don't get it. You still have points that will eventually wear out (particularly the rubbing block) then you have to mount an external module and wire it, plus the other stuff folks are talking about. On top of that most of the that parts store replacement modules this year are of suspect quality at best (many folks on here talk about failures).
    Drop a PerTronix in it, if you're worried about reliability you can drop your points back in if that happens, but the track record is pretty damn good overall. Easy to install and not all the external junk - Plus a 30 month warranty.
    Just my thoughts - and yes I work for them, but honestly that has nothing to do with this, I was using them 20 years before working for them (and I don't work for the Ignition Division anyway)
     
    henryj1951 likes this.
  25. That is a 1980-91 7 pin module, not the more common 4 pin (74-88) - there is also an 8 pin version.
     
  26. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 4,451

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    I actually have a new Ignitor 2 on the shelf. One reason I don't want to install it now is I just put in new solid core wires which won't work with it (would resistor plugs suffice?) but the main reason is I have to remove my radiator to get to the distributor. If the Pertronix failed by the roadside I'd hard pressed to get the points back in. With the HEI module I believe it could just be removed. I'll probably go with the Pertronix next time I have the radiator out but I'm curious if the HEI will make a difference, and so far it's cost me $1.50 for the resistor.
     
  27. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The ballast resistor you need depends on the coil you use. Make sure you match it up properly.

    The HEI module in that distributor is not the one you want...you want a 4 pin.
     
  28. blowby
    Joined: Dec 27, 2012
    Posts: 4,451

    blowby
    Member
    from Nicasio Ca

    Yeah, I found a distributor with a 4 pin in my pile, spun it and it sparks. Apparently the stock HEI coil in the cap is .5 ohm, and it receives full system voltage. If the HEI module handles the normal point current then one should be able to use the same resistance.....I think.
     
  29. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 37,400

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    What coil do you plan to use? I'd use the resistor that is supposed to be used with it, or no resistor if it is not supposed to be used with a resistor.
     
  30. Drunk Man
    Joined: Sep 1, 2010
    Posts: 833

    Drunk Man
    Member
    from NB Canada

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2013 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.