Folks Of Interest How to talk sense into the "dark" side of this hobby?

So i know quite a few people that are dead set into building "those" cars. I cant bring myself to even utter the words. Rolling rusted deathtraps is more adequate to these scenarios. Now, im not saying these early cars are safe, but im seeing more and more or these folks using parallel leaf axles with mono leafs, welded U bolts, home made front hair pins, shit welding, and in one case, a pair of coil springs welded to the rear axle ( i shit you not). Any time i see these people, i cant help but say "hey, this is very dangerous and this car is a deathtrap" to the person, only to be greeted with remarks about what an asshole i am (no denying it) or how its their car and they can do with it as they well. It seems that building a car on a budget with what you have laying around has been taken to a new extreme, to LITERALLY what you have laying in your backyard. Im not a rich man, and i dont have a million resources for parts either, but i take my time (now at least) to gather up the correct parts when they become available in my price range. Thats how im building my 28' RPU with a 3 carb flathead. But to these "other" folks that are hell bent on building something that will probably kill them just because its "the hottest thing right now", im the hotrod nazi because i have all these parts for my car iv been collecting for since before i even had the car. I like to build to an era, at least with a car thats worth building into an era correct vehicle, not just with fence post and milk jugs and ducttape because its "what i had laying around".

I only rant because i fear what may become of the future of this hobby with more people getting into building deathtraps. It really makes me strive to out do myself because i know that the more effort and pride i put into my work, the better the work becomes.

More people need to stalk Brian Bass i think ...

 

I usually wait till they ask me about "how fast can you go with that strait axle?" before I start pointing things out. Most of the time there answer is "well I saw this set up in a magazine" or" I did mine this way because my buddy did it this way". At that point their generally wanting advice or had their " I think I'm going to die in this!" moment.
I too worry about some of the questionable welds, and ideas for saving money. I hope that no one does end up getting hurt and the D.O.T getting involved. Last thing we need is a required permit to participate in the hobby.

 

I am 63 years old. I have been messing with cars since I was a teenager.

There has ALWAYS been a few folks who are CHEAP ... but yet want to play with the big boys.

They expect you to lower your standards down to theirs.

Some of these rides ( most really ) are death traps and give the rest of us a bad name. Yet ... to the uninformed @ the shows ... they are drawn to them like flies to mature. It is the " train Wreck " effect I guess. Everyone wnats to see if any one died but do not want to be involved in the wreck.

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i dont mind unfinished rusty bodys. like stated the bad welds.skulls and cross bones every where, and random things welded/zip screwed on..and the stuffed or plastic rats...

 

These heaps have allowed us to sell trash for a few bucks, so we can buy good parts for our builds. I've always thought true Hot Rodders were trying to build INDY car quality rides from the very start in the 1930's just on a tight budget. Car was built right and painted when finished.

 

I cringe everytime somebody asks if I'm gonna build it as a r** r**. I respond with "Why would I intentionally screw up a car?!"

 

Cosmetics and styles are great for playing with.

Structure is the portion where there is no compremises.

 

The only thing I would do is try to teach the young kids about trad hot rodding.
People come to the hamb,read the rules and they still say stuff like"Im tired of this traditional bullshit".
The only thing I would do is encourage the young ones to build a safe car.
Why not invite a kid to watch you or help you build your car have him bring his dad.
It only took a friendly suggestion from a hot rodder to turn me into trad hot rods.
He said:We dont build rat rods,we build traditional hot rods and customs,come and see what is all about"
I never went to his club meeting but I did research it.
My idea of trad hot rod is mr ModelT's 29.

Now that I see what real hot rodding is about,I have lots and lots to learn.

 

Why bother? Some folks actually want their cars that way.
Paul

 

The crap car fad of,what is it about 15 years now? is powered by the lack of known history and less work of doing it sloopy,so looks like the know little to nothing guy can join the fad EZ.
It seems to fall on def ears to try to help with any info that would actuly help those that did it that. Just talking about it in any way is pretty much beating a dead cow.

 

Yep! They're not gonna listen...

 

Yes dead cow!!--Now when I was younger some of us rode Rat Bikes--but that is a term I haven't head for a while

 

The people that build and own those so called hotrods don't want to hear about anything. I've seen these shit boxes that I wouldn't even ride across a parking lot in. Chopped Model A sedans with the roofs tacked in the corners only, no toeboards so that you're looking at the bellhousing and rear of the engine, seats not even bolted in , no exhaust, bald tires and the list goes on. These things are scary as hell and I can't understand, especially in New York state how they get away with such poorly built and unsafe junk. Yeah , and then you have the muscle car guys that look at my 55 Chev. and say , "nice R--Rod". They sometimes don't even get it after you explain and or show them the differance.

 

I've become a little more philosophical about it as I have gotten older, and here is my take on it. No one is going to change the fact that some people WANT to build R R's. They like the look and the bare bones "in your face" appeal they have. Just like some people like restored cars, some like customs, some like hot rods, etc..................there is a certain gjroup of people who like RR's.

I visit a lot of car oriented forums and two of them are RR specific. I go there because I like a lot of the members, in fact, I pretty much like all the members. The forums are friendly, well run, and there is no flaming or drama. It has been that way when I have met some of the members at events. My point of saying this is that these are just regular guys, like all of us on here, and they have a particular style of car that they gravitate toward. None of them have horns, spew venom, or abduct small children.

My secondary reason for belonging to those forums is to try to show some of the younger members that just because a car may not have spit and polish on every surface it still does not need to be unsafe nor does it need to have stuff like camshafts for draglinks, boogery welds, and stuff like that. Over the several years I have been frequenting these forums I have seen a real change in the way RR's are being built. Oh, sure, there are still a few who want to shock the world by using Craftsman combination wrenches for steering arms, but more and more of them are asking questions about the RIGHT way to do steering, brakes, and suspensions. It feels really good when someone who is new to the hobby starts asking how something should be done correctly and a bunch of older rodders chime in to offer some good, solid suggestions.

Make no mistake, I hate seeing some of the horrible construction techniques and parts some RR's use as the rest of you, but I also realize that just because they like a certain style of car than we do makes them no more wrong than us. It is no different than the hatred hard core restorers have for those of us who "ruin" good old cars by taking off fenders and chopping tops. It is just a fact of life that we car lovers tend to get into little groups and think the style of car we build is the only one that should exist. But the only thing we all agree on is that cars should be fun and as safe as possible.

One thing I have not liked is that occasionally a hot rodder will sign on to one of the RR forums for the sole purpose of causing trouble. They have no intentions of trying to contribute anything, they just want to stir the pot. Nothing constructive ever comes out of that except it polarizes the members even more into an "us vs them" mentality. It woud be far better for the hot rodders to try to pass along some of the wisdom they have to the younger members in a nonjudgemental way.

Don

 

These days many people(including rodders) call anything in primer or without a high dollar paint job, lotsa chrome, and rough interior a r..r... When I was a kid myself and most of my buddies had primer here and there on our rides, some were totally primed. The interiors were usually stock and pretty worn. In a hot rod, function and safety should be paramount. Looks are in the eye of the beholder. As my avatar shows my model A is almost always referred to as a r..r.. I dont mind it, but I consider it just an affordable(for me) hot rod, not unlike the ones some of us drove in the fifties and sixties. There is some scary stuff out there, but r..r.. doesn't always mean unsafe trash.

 

Well put Dons HR

 

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and who said it was your job to "talk sense into these kids". Im glad you were blessed to save up for the right parts . But somepeople want to enjoy their cars even if they are not done in your eyes . I love trad rods and customs . thats why im here. but to group all unfinished rods in to Rat rod category is kind of lame . It seems alot of thread time is spent talking about something thats not even allowed ??? Just saying. If someone wants to put a scull or primer on his car Im not gonna knock it . Id rather see that at a show than people posing that they built something when I know who built the frame, who built the motor, who did the stiches , who blocked and painted .. All im saying rather then knocking something .. guide people god bless

 

there are a few manufacturers that have done this as well, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I had a 58 pickup with mono leafs as well not even close to a RR.

 

my buddy's street rod used to get called a R%# R*& because of the flat black paint he used. he almost repainted it cuz he was so tired of hearing that

 

I think it's one thing to build something with stuff you have laying around, but keep it safe and tasteful. If i'm building a car (which i am) that isn't painted and looks "worn" you can be damn sure that everything under it and inside of it will be top notch. I'm more than willing to trade some pretty paint for a smooth riding and safe vehicle.

However the deathtrap thing flows into other areas as well. I can't count how many bagged trucks i've seen with booger welds on their step notch, half mono leaf "2 link" set ups, threaded rod welded to a bolt to make the brake linkage work and countless wiring nightmares.

Shitty craftsmanship is everywhere, not just with "those" cars. However as stated, when you bring something up to these people they get all butt hurt. IMO, I say screw their feelings, i'd rather say something then let them go on thinking that what they did is right or safe.

Edit: Very well said Don. I think it's great that people are starting to realize that you can still build something "RR-ish" without having it be a deathtrap. I'm part of that younger croud and appreciate everything you guys do to put people in the know.

 

I look at these "things" and while some may be cool. I cringe when looking at the welds. these cars will never help the hobby, they are death traps waiting to happen. They will only bring grief to our hobby as more folks die when the "welds" let loose while driving

 

IMO...number one is performance & safety, my kids routinely ride with me. If I didn't have power discs I would have plowed into 1/2 dozen ass clowns that have pulled out in front of me, or cut into traffic just to slam on brakes (wow those little imports have good brakes). Distant second is aesthetics. However, I don't want to ride in a death trap that IF I survive the trip I still need a tetanus shot. Also, if it doesn't make it go faster, safer, or more comfortable you don't need it. Having a plastic rat attached to a car makes as much sense as a 5ft wing on a kia; loose it.
OK, here's the soap box; I feel better...

 

it will never change.
every mouth breathing idiot thinks it's a r@tr*d if it's "a work in progress" ,i remember when all sh*t started--i was ok with it,it wasn't to fare from what i liked then 1 day sh*t really took a twist{no long any care in what they were building}the theme was let's not care how safe it is! let's weld this here & this there,i seen old farm stuff welded to many car/trucks....oh i give up......

 

Well said Don!

 

dude, there is no way you can stop people from building what they want. if they want to drive around in shit boxes, that's their choice, but if you ever get the chance to pass along the importance of safety to one young rodder, and he heeds your advice, then you've done the hobby a favor. that's all you can do man.

 

amen !!! autobodyed just said it .

 

Exactly.
All you can do is suggest a neat tip and hope for the best

 

Back in 89, I was working for a custom paint shop as a bodyman, my boss was a perfectionist, he bought a 26 T coupe that was a triple 1st place show winner, been in the mags, papers, etc. He called me 1 sunday and ask me to come in to the shop, he had drove his prize for the 1st time and said there was aproblem. I crawled all around this SHOW car and found the following, the steering box was held on with plumbers tape, the trans mount was a piece of chain, motor mounts were solid to the 289 and had 1 , 1/4 bolt on each one to the unboxed T frame, ETC. Moral of the story, don't judge a book by its cover.