Has anybody used these axles in a build? The steering arm was operated from the front and I am looking to steer from the rear if possible. I have no problem with front steer either, as the axle is set up that way from factory, with shackles in rear. I`ve read and searched etc to no avail. I would need a for and aft swing box or cross steer? I want a pretty stout box, Car is a 52 Dodge and will be running a heavy RB engine. I`m attempting a sq. tube chassis and can fabricate anything nessary, just stuck on how/what to steer this build. I want it to be safe as this will be a street/cruiser only. Also wondering if any other steering knuckles might interchange to make it a rear steer? I`m open to any/all suggestions, and would like to stay away from speedway type axle systems if possible. Yes I`m building a faux gasser, spare me any grief on that. I recieved this project setting on a metric chevy chassis that was not working out as someone planned. Anybody had success with these axles?
You can make the axle steer from behind. The secret of good steering is to have the drag link parallel to the spring. Draw a line thru the spring pivot point and the spindle, the drag link needs to be parallel to this line and the same length. Look at some old cars and you will see what I mean. If you do this you will have to put the shackle to the front. With parallel leafs the drag link should be parallel to the spring, not crossways. 4 wheel drive Toyota pickup trucks with solid front axles have a good steering box, often used to add power steering to solid axle pickup trucks. I think 1985 was the last year.
Thanks and understood, I`ve yet to fab mounts for axle untill I figure what will work, as front or rear steer. It would be cost effective to front steer it, but I believe the box will be in the front sheetmetal/radaitor support, unless it`s hung under frame, and that may be visible/gaudy? As it sets now the drag link would be beyond the bumper, of course it could be shortened, Is the toyota box front steer?
155,000+ members, surely someone tried these axles? or maybe that`s the reason that they were not used? I can provide any pics/measurements, a man would need to determine what may work.
here's the deal- you just have to play with all possible aspects- I've got a Chevy van axle, but the theory's the same. I couldn't get the drag link to go across the car (under the engine) with out putting a HUGE bend in it to get under the oil pan- and even if that would be strong enough-it looked like crap, and because mine's a lifted-up gasser, the angle of the drag link would cause bump steer. I could have unbolted the steering arms from the spindles and flipped them left/right, putting them in the front of the axle, but the ackerman would be messed up -badly- ackerman= if you put your eyeball at the center of the rear axle and look forward at the kingpin- that's the imaginary line that the tierod hole on the steering arm needs to land on. so if the steering arm is facing forward, it needs to be bent out towards the side wall.. My solution- moving the box forward on the frame rail and connecting it to the passenger spindle- I've gotten a third steering arm that fits my spindles, and am bolting it to the UPPER two mounting bolts facing forward. This upper positioning of the steering arm makes my drag link bar almost perfectly horizontal (no bump steer). So the steering box has a drag link in front of the engine to the upper spindle bolt holes (front steer) and the two spindles talk to each other with the factory tierod (rear steer). To make it work- just flip the pitman arm on the steering box 180 degrees so that it steers the correct way in a front/steer application- this can also move your steering box further forward or backwards on the frame depending on which way the arm faces when stock. -rick
Fitty Toomuch Fitty Toomuch, If you want a rear steer it is going to involve building steering arms for your axle. I have seen fellas swap the spindles from one side to the other but you open up a new can of worms doing it that way. it can be done on most axles but like I said you are leaving yourself to geometry problems. If you have room in front take the lead from 69Fury. I believe he has his sorted out. Maybe he has a link to his post on it. 69Fury Did you ever post results on that front steer setup you were working out?<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_7021306", true); </SCRIPT>
I did the exact same thing you're doing a few years ago, dropped gasser axle, mopar 383/727 into a 1952 Plymouth Business coupe. We used a F1 steering box/column and side steering. Worked like a charm! See it here: http://waywardgarage.com/category/my-cars/myoldcars/1952plymouth/
I've not posted results yet as the build is moving at a snails pace- We're hoping to finish the rear suspension install this weekend and start on the cage. Since the forward bars are going to combat the steering box for the same space, i'might as well address the steering and put cage bars where ever there's room left. So i guess we might have some results this weekend, then eh? I have a stock 61 Falcon box (just like mustang) which can go right up against the radiator (cage bar interference) -but i like it cuz its so compact/easy to mount. - it operates way up front because the pitman has to face rearward in a front steer application. I also have a mopar manual box that would fit the cage better due to having a forward facing pitman in front steer application. the box would snuggle up against the side of the engine pulleys. But it's harder to mount, bigger, and has that pitman arm with the ball on it that is a wear item. But it would leave lots of room for the cage bars to land on top of the frame rail..... we'll see... -rick
Steering box can go ahead of the axle or behind, just be sure the shackle is at the opposite end of the spring from the steering box. Lots have been built with cross steering but I don't see how they avoid bump steer. 48 Fords had cross steering but they also had a Panhard rod. There is another answer, and that is a rack and pinion mounted right on the axle. Then you have to arrange 2 universals and a slip joint on the steering shaft for when the axle goes up and down.
Appreciate the input fellas, I need all the help I can get. 69 fury thanks, that is one option, and helpfull. porknbeaner, I hear ya, maybe I should persue front steer exclusively. I would need to chase down a factory box or one in the same design. I don`t have said box or even know what they look like, and junk yards are slim pickens since the great scrap drive. From what few boxes I`ve seen, they are splined that they will only go on one way. How are you guys defeating this, to clock the pitman another way? el scotto, I assume you used a ford truck axle also? A pic of your setup would be awesome if possible. I have your twin, only Dodge. How far did you recess the firewall if so? This was my first mistake useing a cabover van axle, but would sure like to beable to use it. Any HAMBers within a reasonable drive from Charlestown WV, that has and would part with a side steer box would be appreciated. Also links, vendors, pics, that may help me would be great too. thanks fellas.
'42-'47 Ford pickups used cross steering with a beam axle and parallel leaf suspension. For a side steer application, the steering box from the same A-100 that contributed the axle would be a good choice. It's a GM Saginaw box designed for side steer application. I used to have a '69 Dodge A-100 van with a slant 6 and 3 on the tree, probably had 300,000 on it when I got it, burned oil but it handled like a new one. The steering box out of that old A-100 now guides a buddy's '21 Stude roadster.
I have a bunch of pics on my build thread that may give you some ideas. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=501387 F1 axle with a factory rear steer box set up for cross steering. The lower steering arms and factory tie rod are intact and I had to make a custom arm for the rh side for the drag link. I cut off the side steer section from the driver side steering arm.
post 81 of 55 Chieftan's build thread shows his home made upper steering arm on the passenger spindle. My engine is to far set back to do that without a tunnel through the oilpan (tempting ) so i mounted my upper facing forward. To clock the pitman, you'll have to examine it for the master splines- from what i understand most boxes have 1 or 4 master splines- the 61 falcon box has 4 that are 90 degrees apart. This allows me to clock it 180degrees out. I've removed master splines by using a small triangular shaped file. Mounted in a Sawzall Remember the Ackerman issue if you go 100% front steer. The bend of the steering arms needs to be reversed so they bend OUT towards the tire sidewalls when they are mounted ahead of the axle. Just search Ackerman. Properly set up Ackerman allows the left tire to turn sharper than the right when making left hand turns and the right tire to turn sharper than the left when making right hand turns. That will cut down the scrub issues/handling evils...
I think this is what I`m gonna try first. A member on another site is parting 65 a-100, anyone know if they changed anything on these boxes to 69? hopefully not. Guess I could call parts store and see if the pitmans are the same. Good read and cool car 55, I been pondering this issue, and reading everything I can that relates to I beam/straight axle conversions, here on the HAMB and elsewhere, thanks Thanks for enlightening me, on the spline subject. I`ve researched and understand all the issues on the steering geometry and such, that`s why I`m nervous about getting it right the first time, "would hate to keep scarfing off mounts and such untill I get it right", I hate fab failure. thanks Well I`ve got to go on with something, worst case senairo, 5 mounts fabbed, and unuseable, and a few steering boxes laying around the shop. I`ll update if im still stuck, or inform if sucessfull. Thanks everybody I`ve got my front body mounts installed and anxious to make this thing a roller again.
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