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Technical How to install a headliner in a fat ford!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tim, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Tim
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    Alright, so after a few years of listening to my headliner bows clank around over my head I decided to finally put a headliner in my 46 ford Tudor.

    Now as I looked around online I saw some general advice but no real step by steps. I also noticed a lack of photos. I did see lots of good revues for LeBaron Bonney and that they had great directions so with the little internet info I could find I ordered myself one and dove in taking way to many photos in the process.

    I now understand why there aren't a lot of photos online, it took a lot of time to take them and many spots are really hard to get a look at. But I got it done and here we are! I'll try to get this all posted as quickly as I can but I am doing it in space pieces of time in the day so it might take a minute.

    On the note of time I would estimate with the ceiling of the car already painted and insulated it took me right around 25 hours to install. This is diffinitly a project that you need to take your time with, stop and breath, get a stretch and have in your mind that your ok redoing something.
     
  2. Patiently waiting for pictures.:D
     
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  3. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Tim
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    my plan at this point is to walk threw and narrate my photos as best I can. If you think of a question please wait until the end and if I haven't answered it feel free to ask.

    image.jpeg Alright so I opted to leave the seats in the car while I worked on the headliner, it ended up being nice because even though I had to dance around them occasionally it did give me a good place to sit or kneel.

    My car had the old headliner ripped out so my first step was to pay a lot of attention to where I found fabric.

    Removing the grab rails above each door you can see remnants of the windlace along the bottom.
    image.jpeg Two long screws in the A pillar and four short ones in the length.
    image.jpeg

    Flipping the grab rail down you can see two things. Right off the bat you see the big tangs that are attached to the car and hold the windlace and second you see corisponding dots that are from the alligator/grab teeth that hold the headliner under the rail. You can see a bit of the head liner is still attached to the rail here.

    As good as any directions are reverse engineering will always help.
     
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  4. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Tim
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    -internet at work is pretty slow so the photos take a while to load, thanks for your patience-
    image.jpeg
    Here you can see the teeth much clearer as I peeled the old head liner off. I did NOT bend these teeth I just pulled the fabric out.

    image.jpeg I then moved onto removing the windlace bias tape from the tangs on the car. I took this photo to show how tight they were held in. Partially for you guys and partially for myself when putting the new stuff in.
    image.jpeg You can see here that the tangs are curved. They hold stuff in with the tip, not by hammering the whole tang flat. I did have to gently pry some of them open with a flat blade screw driver to get them to release
    image.jpeg Here you can see that the windlace from the factory had a bit of cord sewn into the edge and the tangs sorta curve around it.
    image.jpeg
    Working forward the windlace is nailed to a tack strip in the A pillar.
     
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  5. Tim
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    image.jpeg Here is the tack strip with out the fabric. Mine was in pretty good shape but I still elected to leave the existing tacks instead of pulling them. Figured it would keep it more solid.
    image.jpeg
    Here you can see that while there is a channel for the tack strip it is held in place with some tangs here as well
     
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  6. Tim
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    image.jpeg
    Below the dash the windlace is held on a few different ways. The first you'll notice is a retainer strip that the kick panels stick into. It comes out with a couple screws.
    image.jpeg
    After some Kroil they came out and I marked them with chalk. You can now see the four nails under the retainer. These are what actually holds the windlace in place. I marked them as well
     
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  7. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    With both side done and cleaned up, the rear garnish moldings removed and the back window out it was time to start putting stuff in!
    image.jpeg
    When holding your windlace you'll see that there is a big flap towards one end. This flap goes behind the edge of your dash. It seems the only way it would go all the way in is removing your dash. I didn't do that but I did take these two photos.
    image.jpeg

    You need to figure out which piece is the drivers side and which is the passenger side. You want it took look like the top photo with the flap facing forward. This one is for the passenger side as chose to start on the side that doesn't have a steering wheel to work around ;) I suggest you do the same.

    You will end up flipping the flap back and attaching the windlace with the tacks and nails in the dark gray bias tape that runs the entire length. Then the flap folds over it and covers it all.

    That make since? Just don't want you getting a half hour in and realize it's the wrong side.
     
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  8. Jalopy Joker
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
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    Jalopy Joker
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    Thanks for info
     
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  9. Tim
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    Tim
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    Now would be a decent time to go buy some contact cement. Depending on what your comfortable with some people glue the windlace in place and then tack it etc. either way you will need it. image.jpeg however supplied in my headliner and windlace package- which came with so much stuff that I never even knew I needed I really felt smart for buying it- were these nails and tacks image.jpeg these gnarly suckers are what you use to hold the windlace down under the kick panel retainer strips image.jpeg and a whole bunch of these are what you use for the rest.
     
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  10. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Tim
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    Your first step is to locate the flap. image.jpeg They recommend that you have the bottom of the flap an inch to two inches below the dash. I have custom panels that go up a little higher than I imagine stock ones do but the idea is to have it fill all the gaps and tuck behind.

    You'll probably have a little that needs trimmed where it meets the floor but don't cut it yet, or if you do keep in mind that the windlace tucks under your sill plates you don't want to come up short. I waited as I wanted to concentrate on the job at hand.

    image.jpeg
    I didn't tuck the flap in I just nailed the bottom in place and then continued with the tacks up to the grab rail. It gave me a funny measurement but you basically want the fat tube of the windlace to have the seam just shy of the corner that turns into the door jamb.

    I shut the door every few inches to make sure it would still let me shut the door. I left all the extra fabric but I folded it over to show you how much extra there is. Note the impression and that I'm grabbing the windshield gasket ~ your windshield garnish molding also needs to be out at this time, mine had been slowly getting warped all to heck hanging on the wall the last few years so I failed to mention taking it out. But for the love of god pay attention to how it comes out because it no joke took me 6 hours and a helper to get it back in.


    Anyhow...
     
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  11. Tim
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    image.jpeg
    Some of these tangs needed opened a little more to slide the bias tape under them. I kept them tight enough that I could slide a few in place and then go back and hammer the tangs all down.

    I roled the back edge of the bias tape over to simulate the cord that was on the stock stuff and also to take up some slack to bring the fat roll into place. I wanted good tension side to side so it wouldn't sag or do something weird. Just do a little at a time, take a few steps back and go back at it.
    image.jpeg You can sorta see how I roled the edge here
    image.jpeg All snugged up I went on to bringing it down the B pillar such is a mix of tack strip and tangs. Your nails and stuff all end up under a trim piece and the quarter panel upholstery.

    However I did fail to show that corner being made. It's a tight turn so they recommend cutting the bias tape - not the cord! Aka fat part - I found after mocking it up that I only needed one small slit to let it release any tension and lay flat threw the corner.

    image.jpeg This photo shows the tangs that hold it on the bottom half of the B piller.bagain remember your bottom end gets trimmed to fit under the sill plate.
     
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  12. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Ok at this point with both sides done I removed the sun visors. They are held in by three screw headed bolts, I think they are called clutch screws? Anyhow I took them off image.jpeg i didn't realize that the unit went up into the metal structure, I kept this little piece of the old head liner that was revealed to later use as a bit of a template for cutting holes in the new one image.jpeg Keep in mind when you get to this area of the headliner that you want to get it nice and tight but you also need to be able to install these with out ripping something when you tighten it all down. You'll get that more when you pull that area tight and push a few fingers to see how far the headliner is from the roof where they bolt on.
    image.jpeg Then I took the supplied padding- looms like synthetic jute padding/insulation- that came with the kit and cemented it to the vertical/ flat face of the rear window opening. That's the only place I can think of to put it. The directions said around the side windows and I didn't have any left from stock so it's a little bit of a guess but when you look really close there is a small gap from the face you glue it to and the back side of the garnish molding. I guess this would bring the headliner out to meet the molding. I put it on in one peice and made one cut to make it curve but if you made the padding not quite as wide it would probably let you bend it. image.jpeg then ironed the headliner. It was shipped folded and is fabric so every day heat was not going to get rid of those creases. image.jpeg You then will want to figure out which side is the front and which is back. They both have little wings off the corners but you'll notice there's a big difference in size of the actual panels. The big one is the back as the back window gets cut out of it.
     
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  13. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    image.jpeg I then crawled into the back seat and popped the last bow out and slid it threw the sleeve on the back- the listing as it's often called- and put it back in place. Finished they sit about 90 deg from the window edge but I let them lay down at this point. - side not they bows are under a little tension but they more or less just need clocked correctly in the funny shaped hole they go into and squeezed a bit to slid one end out and then the other side slides out.

    The bows need to stay in the right order so I just pulled them and installed them in the car one at a time instead of trying to put them all in the headliner and then try to get it into the car and blah blah blah.

    Anyhow I did the first two or three by themselves and then did the next in groups sliding two or three bows into the listing and then putting that group into place. The panels get kinda short so it would be really hard to slide one bow in and put it into its place at a time.
    image.jpeg
    When you get to the front the bow is held in the center by a metal tang. You need to pull it back and remove the bow, slide the bow into the listing, put the bow back in place but not pushed all the way forward.

    At this point you need to look over your saggy headliner and make sure it is even from side to side. Pulling on the white listing to adjust it and NOT on the fabric panels.

    Once your happy with how centered it is you push the bow forward with the last panel hanging down out of the way until the listing hits the tang. Cut a small slit in the listing and NOT the fabric and insert the tang into the listing and slide the bow under it. With this all in place you can use you hand or a really clean hammer to push the tang down/up to hold it in place like it was when you started.

    This one solid point is now your front to back and side to side reference point as its not going anywhere now.
     
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  14. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Now I worked my way back laying the bows into the correct position
    image.jpeg
    Looks a little like a bedroom fort at this point haha. image.jpeg then I worked a little at a time getting the side to side wrinkles smoothed out some. Getting rid of the bunches really. What you do is cut a small slit, I used scissors, on the far side of the listing and pull them down. The listing in my case has a crease in it where it hangs on the bow, you cut it and it allows it to come down over the edge with out gathering up.

    The panels sort of flap over in between. Keep in mind to get slow and in small increments working one bow at a time, pull only on the listing, and do NOT cut the seam.
    image.jpeg
    One it feels as good as your going to get it, I kinda pushed it down as to simulate it being pulled and secured into place, you pull the back down and secure it.

    I don't seem to have taken photos of Thi but there is a tack strip that runs around the back of the package tray. It was very hard to get into with a tack and hammer!

    I layed some towels out to keep me from losing stuff in the dark or down into the trunk, you can also sort of see that I used some needle nose pliers and a center punch to help me get the tacks in along with a hammer. A long nose/skinny staple gun would be a great idea for this area.

    I worked from the center to the edges back and forth at the same time. Doing the middle first let me tension the headliner front to back before working the panel side to side. It's a weird curved area so working back and forth towards the outside edges helped me keep it tight and not end up with a funny pucker somewhere.
    image.jpeg You can see I still had some pull lines but at this point it hadn't had the rest tightened and you can see how far the headliner is from the window opening when it's pulled tight.
     
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  15. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Tim
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    image.jpeg
    The back tacked in place and the front bow in the tang/clip it was as tight front to back as it was going to get so I moved to glueing the last panel to the edge just above the windshield.

    You can see here that I held it up with some magnets and started with a 10 inch wide section in the center. I then let it dry and set up before doing small sections working back and forth towards the edges.

    Towels are to keep glue off the dash, I was using a fan to cool me off and let the cemet set up faster so I didnt want to risk a stray slobber of glue.
    image.jpeg Here you can see how much extra fabric there is. I stretched under the edge and glued to the bottom edge. That area is the dark narrow line. I tried not to over saturate the area with cement as to permanently discolor it but it was enough to make it a little darker until it dried. I used the round end of a putty knifes handle to kinda burnish the fabric flat and get it nice and tight.
     
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  16. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Tim
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    ~ intermission until I have some more time ;)
     
  17. Tim
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    Tim
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    Alright where were we?

    Right I got the windshield edge glued in. Ok. So after that I reinstalled the alligator teeth/grab rails over the doors. With it installed you shouldn't really see the bias tape of the windlace or at least not much of it. The fat cord part of it should be fairly close to the bottom of the grab rail.

    I then worked towards the back getting the side to side stretch nice and tight. Again working one bow at a time going back and forth i took a little bit deeper cut into the listing until I could pull it all tight. ( you kind of have to guess a little on this part as your still just pulling on the listing)

    Once they feel about right all the way to the back come back to the front of the car and trim the white listing so that there is about an inch hanging below the grab rails.
    image.jpeg
    You then shove just the listing into the grab rails making the bow areas nice and tight. One bow at a time until you get to the side windows. I used a smal putty knife. It worked pretty well but I think had I rounded the corners I could have made better use of it. image.jpeg
    Terrible photo but when it's indoors, at night, and the back window is covered it's what we get. You can see here I pulled the listing tight and cemented it to the lip around the window opening.

    You don't glue it to the vertical face where you glued the padding but the horizontal surface that faces down.

    With the listings secure you can move onto the panels. Working my way back forward I was careful and stretched the panels into the window openings. I used some tape but a bunch of small strong magnets would have been way better. You want to make sure that while you pull the wrinkles out your not going at a weird angle or creating pickers in a different panel. Having something else hold it really helps to see what it will look like all tightened.

    To make the transition of the tighter curves near the back of the window make some little slits on the edge of the fabric. You can typically see where they need to be. When you use your hand to stretch the fabric around the tight bend you'll see the section that needs cut pulled tight.

    It's best to take make the slit a 1/4 inch or so at a time and test it weather than cut to deep and have really fowled it up.

    When your happy with it glue the panels to the window opening. Leave all the extra material still.

    Full disclosure I didn't get them as tight as I needed them to be the first time and ended up coming back and slowly pulling the fabric off the opening and re doing it. Thankfully The cement let me do that because I caught it soon after and went very slow. I had left a little slack in the headliner thinking the garnish moldings were going to push on the headliner and tighten it up and I was afraid if it was tight with them out that when I put the molding in it would be to tight and tear something. Well, I was wrong. They don't put pressure on it, they need to be all the way tight right off the bat.

    Live and learn.
     
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  18. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    image.jpeg Moving forward to the grab rails I used my screw driver and putting knife to push the panels into the rails.
    image.jpeg I pulled it tight and worked the area that was close to the grab rails into the teeth until it was holding but hadn't "sucked in" all the extra fabric. I took this photo to show the angle of the putty knife going into the teeth. It's not straight up.

    The instructions said to shove an inch or two of the fabric up into the teeth so with it secured on both sides I cut the panels about an inch and a half below the opening and then shoved it into the teeth. I figure the extra material shoves the teeth deeper into the fabric and holds more pressure on everything.
     
  19. Tim
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    I left the little corner flaps near the windshield lose and in trimmed to deal with later and moved to the back window.
    image.jpeg Yikes. I took a new razor blade and cut a knick in the center of the opening and slowly started opening the window area up in segmented flaps as the headliner glues to a flat lip that the back window gasket covers. I think I took some photos trying to explain where exactly but for now I'll post photos of how I did the back window opening
    image.jpeg image.jpeg I tried to keep the cuts quite a bit shy of the edge because I wasn't really sure how far the fabric would stretch and didn't want to have a slit showing from under the rubber gasket because I rushed it.

    This took a long ass time. Be prepared to take your time.
    image.jpeg
    Here you can see me starting to use the magnets and later tape to hold everything out of the way and sort of in place. image.jpeg My first cuts made an H shape and then I brought the center line further to the sides and added an upright. You can also see that I've started halving the top flaps already because the top of the window has quite a bit more curve than the bottom
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. Tim
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    Looks like one photo got left small and not in order. Sorry it's weird to edit this on my phone. You get the idea right?
    image.jpeg This is how I approached the tonight side sections.
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    In this photo you can see that I've slowly snuck up on the opening with the slits and have things holding the sections tight.
    image.jpeg
     
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  21. Tim
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    image.jpeg Should look about like this at this point. image.jpeg my thumb is resting on the lip I'm stretching to. The opening is like an upside down T my thumb is on the vertical leg and the headliner will glue to inner horizontal arm.
     
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  22. Tim
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    image.jpeg
    As I worked the curves closer to the lip I started splitting each triangle section into smaller ones. Really trying to sneak up on it and keep weird tension out of it.
    image.jpeg You can see the width of the opening here and see that I didn't need to pull the cut lines all the way to the opening to release the tension in the fabric as it transitioned around the curves. image.jpeg as I brought the tight curves in closer i tried to pay aren't ion so how the headliner looked on the sail panels to make sure I wasn't making it look weird or twist. the wrinkles you can see near the top of the back seat get stretched out later after I pull the back seat and cement it down to the panel there.

    You can also see all the extra fabric on the package tray that hasn't been trimmed yet image.jpeg got it all tight and looking like something that blew up in a looney toons cartoon!
     
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  23. Tim
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    I the went around and glued small 3-5 inch sections in at a time leaving the rest tapped in place. I trimmed the sections back a bunch as i got a chunk done so it was all trimmed about the time it was all glued. image.jpeg

    I the ran a razor in the corner of the T and cut the extra off after it had dried for a while. This lets you have the most surface area when glueing it in. So there's a good half inch wide strip of cemented area around the whole window holding it in place. image.jpeg image.jpeg There ya go! Almost done
     
  24. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Time for glass! image.jpeg clean up the glass and put the new gasket onto the glass. I think there's a marker that shows bottom center on these and there is a front and back. It's pretty easy to figure out and came with directions but I did have a friend who does this for a living come do it for me, but I did help more than taking photos as it really does go easier with two people. image.jpeg
    I thought you guys would like this little trick, he's feeding the rope into the gasket threw the cone of a caulking tube so you have a good grip on everything, the rope isn't bound up in your hand, and the tube tip pushes the gasket open and let's your direct the rope right where you want it!
    image.jpeg
    image.jpeg Glass is in! - the window goes into place from the inside, when we removed it we cut the seal on the outside and pulled it in removing the old gasket after it would out of the car completely.
     
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  25. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Ok so no photos of this but I then went and cut the extra material out of the back window openings. Against right at the end of the flat so there is as much cemented area as possible.

    Onto the windshield area I ran a razor along the edge and cut all the extra out leaving some extra at the ends where the A pillar begins.

    I then trimmed the flap on the windlace that goes behind the dash and up the A pillar so that I could use my putty knife to shove a few inches of it between my dash and the A pillar. There are some curvy transitions around the bottom of the windshield/ top of the dash that you'll have to cut some reliefs for as you lay the flap over the A pillar to get it flat.

    My kit came with a little cardboard piece that I think your supposed to wrap the fabric around and sorta wedge it into the A pillar and then the corner flap from the headliner goes behind that. I ended up trimming the fabric flap to cover the A pillar, rolling the edge over and glueing it to itself and then cementing that all to the A pillar/ A pillar tack strip. Folding the top over as well and trimming/ tucking the headliner flap in behind it.

    Sorry for no photos of any of that, just take it slow and use common since and you'll get it.


    image.jpeg The piece on the right is the A pillar cardboard. On the left is an upholstered panel that goes on the B pillar after you trim and glue the headliner down.
    image.jpeg It bolts on to a 1/4 20 nut that's welded into the B pillar. I'm going to cover this bolt head with something more flattering but honestly once I put the seat belts in you can't even see it.

    The length of the piece is held in place by the garnish molding and the bottom goes under the interior panel so there is no worry of it dancing around.

    image.jpeg Put your windshield garnish molding in and your quarter window garnish moldings in and your done! Well I guess you need to carefully prick some holes for your sun visors and instal them as well but seeing as I haven't covered mine yet they are still out of the car.

    You can kinda see here that most of the A pillar is covered by the molding so don't stress to much.

    I'll try to get some finished photos this weekend, trying to get some in the garage has been a failure.

    Overall it was pretty "easy" just incredibly tedious. If I were to do it again I would have more magnets and tweaked the cuts on my listings a little more. When I got it really stretched tight I got some little puckers where the bows attach to the car. Can't really re do that part now but it is something that had I known to pay more attention to would have turned out better.

    Also if you run shoulder anchors for seat belts or the B pillar lights you just carefully make a hole for them when you are stretching that flap over the B pillar before you glue it in. If your using the lights you run the wire across the roof from light to light putting the wire inside the listing for the bow that runs between them.

    Oh and they sent some matching vinyl piping that is supposed to slip under the bottom of the windshield garnish molding to keep the molding and dash separated. I just taped mine to the molding and then installed the molding and removed the tape. I did however end up removing the piping even though I liked how it looked because it wasn't letting me push the molding into the correct placement.

    Over all totally worth it. The car feels quite a bit different with it installed and I can not believe the amount of road noise that is gone. Even driving the car with the back seat removed it's like driving the car with ear muffs in. I hadn't expected such a dramatic sound change, it's the most noticeable on the highway. I love it.

    Anyhow that's it! I'll get some finished photos when it's day light and not raining.
     
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  26. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
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    Been busy should have photos soon
     
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  27. bct
    Joined: Apr 4, 2005
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    bct
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    Thanks . Great info and tips
     
  28. Tim
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    No problem hope some one finds it helpful :)
     
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  29. redzula
    Joined: Jul 6, 2011
    Posts: 1,225

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    My car came with a new headliner not installed... I really need to do this but might just get someone to do it lol.

    You did a good job on yours though.
     
  30. 1pickup
    Joined: Feb 20, 2011
    Posts: 1,436

    1pickup
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