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Technical HOW SHOULD MY SERIAL NUMBER PLATE BE ATTACHED ?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by bobg1951chevy, Dec 6, 2016.

  1. GordonC
    Joined: Mar 6, 2006
    Posts: 2,087

    GordonC
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    After reading this thread it occurs to me the solution has been offered already. Ask the inspector to check what material the tag is made of. If he says aluminum then ask him how to weld aluminum to steel. If he has no answer you should be home free. I am doing a 31 roadster and will have to do the title dance with these folks as well. Not something I am looking forward to but I used reproduction frame rails which have no numbers. I am not worried about a state assigned vin decreasing the value however as it just proves ownership in the eyes of the state. A good thing when and if it comes time to sell plus I just want to be able to drive and enjoy the car.
     
  2. junkman8888
    Joined: Jan 28, 2009
    Posts: 501

    junkman8888
    Member

    Greetings! On my '50 Pontiac the serial # plate was spot-welded to the door post. Apparently spot-welding a stainless steel tag to plain metal doesn't work so good because the tag literally fell off when I opened the door one day. On the two '51 Chevys I have, the serial # plate is riveted to the door post with those factory "hollow ' rivets, my '53 is the same way. On the truck cabs I have of that vintage, some are screwed on with clutch head screws, some riveted on with hollow rivets. Maybe the answer is to take him on a "junkyard crawl" and let him see for himself.
     
  3. I do have two '51 Chevys here, both have good bodies, # 2 cars, both have the serial number tags riveted to the A pillar post, with hollow rivets, as you described.
     
  4. Lebowski
    Joined: Aug 21, 2011
    Posts: 1,570

    Lebowski
    BANNED

    I bought a '56 Buick a couple of years ago from a guy in Ohio and noticed that there was a "1" followed by a space in front of the rest of the serial number on the data plate on the door jamb (by the hinges). The serial number on the title had the same number except without the "1" at the front. I thought I would be in big trouble when I went to register it because they always verify the serial number but then I remembered that I live in Kentucky. I removed the data plate and put a big washer around the left screw when I reattached it so that the "1" was covered. That's right, I used a Phillips screw and I also used one on the other side. When the woman from the vehicle registration office came out to verify the number I made sure that I was talking away about the car so as to distract her so hopefully she wouldn't notice the washer and Phillips screws and believe it or not it worked! LOL Good luck with yours.... :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  5. Cautiously optimistic !
    Officer made his visit, good conversation.
    I showed him the rivets on my other '51 Chevy serial number tag, he snapped a pic of it.
    I copied the picture for him, from my '49 to '53 Chevy Manual, showing the serial number tag location, with its rivets.
    He will submit my info to headquarters in Raleigh.
    We wished one another Merry Christmas, hope this chapter is finished.
    Sincere thanks for all the input from you HAMBERS.
     
  6. unkledaddy
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 2,864

    unkledaddy
    Member

    I bought a motorhome in North Carolina a while back, and after spending about 3 hours with the DMV trying to get a drive-out tag (which they told me I needed when I called), I gave up. Luckily, I had taken a license plate off of another vehicle with me just-in-case, and ended up using it to get home.
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  7. badvolvo
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 469

    badvolvo
    Member

    took my P1800 volvo to the Kansas Hypo to get the serial inspection. She said, your gonna fix this? Then she looked at the VIN tag and said, you have a real problem here. The serial tag is secured with phillips head screws! I said yes, that's how they were done. "No one does that" she said. She marched into the office and pulled out a thick book. She got to the Volvo P1800 section and said "wow, they were attached with phillips head screws". I got my tag, went home and switched the tag to the proper, prostreeted P18.
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  8. Perhaps it is not attached with factory type rivets? It should be attached with a steel blind rivet if it is riveted. You can get them that work with a pop rivet gun from Ace hardware. That is what we use on stuff around here and they always pass muster.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  9. P&B,
    Initially, the DMV inspector who called said the rivets were not the way to attach the serial number plate, on my '51, meaning the plate should have had spot welds.
    The plate is attached with 2 blind rivets.
     
  10. Junkman8888,
    It was not the local DMV trooper/inspector who created the fuss, instead it was one of the people in the "headquarters office" in Raleigh, NC, for antique titles.
    That person looked at the pic provided to them, showing my serial number plate, along with my title paperwork, then made the accusation that my plate was mounted incorrectly.
    See my post above "cautiously optimistic"
     

  11. Sent from my SM-T550 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  12. Mr Turbo .... No message seen ........
     
  13. Bob: What I meant to post was that in the 2 times Ive had NCDMV inspectors to verify VIN nos. , they knew exactly how ,where ,and what to look for. I'm not sure how your situation turned out ,but IMHO I would see if the inspector that originally looked at your car be the one that re-inspects it. Then let him fight it out with HQ's..
    Both my vehicles had to have a NCDMV assigned VIN .. Not the worst scenario ,but cost a bit of money..
     
  14. Turbo,
    Here is the summary of my situation.
    Cautiously optimistic !
    The same Officer who made the initial contact, made his visit to my home yesterday, we had a good conversation.
    I showed him the rivets on my other '51 Chevy serial number tag, he snapped a pic of it.
    I copied a picture for him, from my '49 to '53 Chevy Manual, showing the serial number tag location, with its rivets.
    He will submit my info to headquarters in Raleigh.
    The officer believes this deal is finished .......... based on the info provided, plus the fact that NC DMV had already issued my NEW title, PRIOR to any discussion of "incorrect serial number plate attachment".
    By the way, the officer stated his source of serial number information is provided by NCIB, the National Insurance Crime Bureau.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2016
  15. That's a real PITA. I wish I had an answer for ya.

    its funny how things work, I knew a guy here who had a Studebaker that the vin plate was just a piece of steel plate screwed to his firewall with numbers on it (not stamped done with an etcher). I had a '46 Chevy at the same time that the vin was the motor number, they wouldn't pass it because it didn't have a vin plate even after I showed them the motor numbers on the original motor. WE both had out of state titles and got inspected within a week of each other.

    Hope it works out for ya.
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  16. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 17,647

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Congratulations!

    You just admitted to committing a felony on an open forum!

    It would take even the most ham-fisted investigator about 15-minutes to discern your identity.
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  17. slack
    Joined: Aug 18, 2014
    Posts: 534

    slack
    Member

    When y'all are standing there side by side lookin at it, slip your hand into his pocket and fish around like you're lookin for change. Be forewarned though, you may have to run him off. :rolleyes:
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  18. metlmunchr
    Joined: Jan 16, 2010
    Posts: 748

    metlmunchr
    Member

    Bob, the central DMV in Raleigh screws up just about everything they touch. You can call 5 times and ask the same question and get 5 different answers, all of which will likely be wrong.

    We were in the crane and rigging business for 35 years and regularly had to get permits for overweight and overwidth loads. For years the permits were handled by the local highway dept office here in Asheville. When you get a permit it includes routing to keep you from crossing inadequalely rated bridges and such. Couple women in the local office had a set of books with every pig path in the west end of the state and all sorts of notes they'd added to keep up with any sort of obstructions etc that weren't in the books. I could call and tell them where I needed to go to and from, and pick up the permit within an hour at their office.

    Then they moved the whole permit process to Raleigh to "make it more efficient". Then you needed to apply about 3 days ahead of time. They'd send the permit to the local highway office. The women there, same ones who formerly issued permits, would check and note all the route errors, and list the new route. But they couldn't just issue the permit at that point. Instead they had to return it to Raliegh so that the same idiots who couldn't route it correctly in the first place could now "approve it." At that point, Raleigh would re-issue the permit whereupon the local women would have to check it again since half the time Raleigh couldn't even copy the correct route when it was given to them.

    The local women even told Raleigh Hey let us give you the route when we initially send in the permit info, but that didn't fly since only Raleigh was authorized to do the routing. I eventually learned from a reliable source that entire department in Raleigh was set up to provide jobs for some influential politician's unemployed friends. Not too hard to figure out why they'd been unemployed.
     
    slack likes this.
  19. unkledaddy
    Joined: Jul 21, 2006
    Posts: 2,864

    unkledaddy
    Member

    My experience was at the DMV in downtown Raleigh, NC.
     
  20. Thanks !
     
  21. Scary to know stuff like this exists, in the name of "progress".
     
  22. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,360

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Tri-Five Chevrolet cars are NOTORIOUS for "losing" the VIN plate from the drivers side A-pillar. And cars both prior to and after the 55-57 years also have the same issue, but are't as popular, so you don't hear about them as much (no need to respond to this if you don't agree that 1962 Chevy II 4 door sedans are "popular" cars too). Lets not even get into the same year Corvettes who's VIN plates are screwed on. GM cars/trucks with the "stainless steel" VINJ plates are spot welded on in two locations, water gets under the plate and causes rust, weakening the area under spot welds. What's particularly troublesome, is the plate is a stainless steel/chromium (I think that's it) material being welded to just plain old steel; and the plain old steel rusts away, thereby breaking the weld (not to mention two dissimilar metals are being welded together). Guys have lost the VIN plate without even knowing it, some have bought a car not knowing it's missing (but the car is completely legal), and I knew one guy who just carried it with him in the glove box, and another guy in high school (66-69 for me) drilled a hole in it and used it for his key fob! Some guys have drilled holes and reattached it with screws or rivets, some have used epoxy to glue it back on, and someone always screams about how illegal doing that is (it is't because of the "intent" involved). Bottom line is, we're dealing with a bureaucratic machine who's employees really have no knowledge or interest in what they're doing, it's just a job to them, but they still have to "stir the pot" to make themselves look important. Sorry Bob has found this out up close and personable, but as our cars age even more, it's bound to get worse. Like the saying goes, "you can't fight city hall"; why would it be any simpler at the STATE level? I've owned four Sedan Deliveries, and every single one of them had a Washington State title (one came from Texas, one from Illinois, and were retitled to Washington State titles) that listed them differently; ie truck, delivery, wagon, etc, and my current Sedan Delivery is insured as a BEL AIR, because that's as close as American Family Insurance can come close to what it actually is. We have special cars, and we have special interests, but ordinary people, who have know idea about such things, regulate us and our cars. I'm surprised anything actually gets done at all. Oh, and by the way, my 1951 Chevrolet Business Coupe had the VIN plate RIVETED on.
    I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
  23. " Bottom line is, we're dealing with a bureaucratic machine who's employees really have no knowledge or interest in what they're doing, it's just a job to them, but they still have to "stir the pot" to make themselves look important.
    You have hit the nail on the head, Butch.
    The "stir the pot" phrase came up in my conversation with the officer.
    He was frustrated with headquarter folks, some trying to make names for themselves ....... at my expense, this time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2016
    slack likes this.
  24. 56sedandelivery
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 6,360

    56sedandelivery
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just thought I'd add this example of a very "questionable" VIN plate, and it's reattachment. First of all, this came from an E-Bay ad, item number 162282504126, and it is not my ad, nor do I have anything to do with the ad, truck, or poster.
    It's is advertised as a 1956 Chevrolet Pickup Truck. It has undergone a huge amount of work and modification. It sits on a very much later 4 X 4 frame, that most likely has "another" different VIN stamped on it somewhere. The VIN plate on this truck should have been spot welded in place originally. Here's where it gets "dicey". It's not an original VIN plate, it's a reproduction sold by a Canadian fella, usually on Craig's List (just look under auto parts), it has been "screwed in place", and it, or another previous plate, had been mounted before as evidenced by the scratches in the newer paint and angled remounting of the current VIN plate. The truck is being sold by a used car dealer to boot. If there was ever a questionable VIN plate, this in my opinion, is it! I can just see it now; someone from another state buys this truck, has it shipped to their own state, and then gets into a "competitive urinary match" with some state licensing/titling agency, and honestly, I don't see how they could prevail. This is not what Bob was dealing with, but is something that should be questioned by a state agency. I see this sort of thing all the time on E-Bay, questionable VIN plates and the vehicles they are attached to. There is also a red and white 56 Chevrolet passenger car currently listed, that is obviously a Model 150, but the VIN plate I.D.'s it as a Bel Air. Don't even bring up the "Bel Air" script on the radio speaker in the car, because when the Bel Air dash trim is added by modifiers, it too gets added, even though the car usually is't a Bel Air. No one is going to take a Bel Air, and remove all the stainless trim, fill all the holes, to build it into what looks like a Model 150; they'd just start with a Model 150 to begin with. What I'm saying i9, this is also a questionable VIN,, in my opinion. Regarding the Tri-Five VIN plates, the letter A denotes a Model 150, B a Model 210, and C a Bel Air, then D is for a Sedan Delivery. A Nomad is listed as C, as it is a Bel Air 2 door wagon, the only way a Bel Air 2 door wagon came was as a Nomad. The other wagons could have been 2 or 4 doors, except a Model 150 wagon, that only was available as a 2 door; all 2 door wagons were called Handyman's (except the Nomad), while the 4 door wagons were Townsman wagons. A little confusing for those not familiar with the Tri-Five Chevrolet's. A V in the VIN meant the car came with a V-8, the six cylinder cars had no letter ID'ing them. Now throw in cars being stolen, retitled, modified, passed around, and then consider the plates rusting away underneath and falling off (like I mentioned in my earlier posting). WHEW!!!!! I am Butch/56sedandelivery.
     
    bobg1951chevy likes this.
  25. Good info, but extremely frustrating that all this goes on.
    To the buyer who doesn't have the knowledge Butch has, that buyer could be in for a GIANT azz ache, when that EBAY vehicle arrives at the front door.
     
  26. My 50 delivery, a 52 coupe and a 49 parts car all had the plate riveted on originally but they'd rusted off and were included in an envelope when I bought the cars. I pop riveted the delivery plate back on and the DMV accepted it at inspection, no problemo.
     

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