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Technical How Rare Are These Heads

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Speed Gems, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,524

    Speed Gems
    Member

    Okay, let's try this again. I seen these in my Facebook group and am wondering how rare they are. I've seen the copper one's on the McGee roadster but not one's with aluminum tops.
    Federal-Mogul heads for 32-36 Ford V8.
    Cast copper-bronze with cast aluminum top covers on the water passages. Made in 1936.

    28168837_1865671483477432_820377183342119901_n.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  2. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,524

    Speed Gems
    Member

    Anybody know anything about these heads?
     
  3. Moriarity
    Joined: Apr 11, 2001
    Posts: 17,521

    Moriarity
    SUPER MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    I don't know anything about the heads, but I deleted the ad....
     
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  4. There has to be a reason the original owner removed them. HRP
    .
     
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  5. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 15,145

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Not only rare, but super duper rare. I've never seen any before.
     
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  6. Back in the early 70's Myself and a partner had an early Ford parts store. We were lucky to have a pair of copper Federal-Mogul heads. Since we were in business to sell parts, we sold them for a decent price. We had a lot of good early parts before they became collectable.
     
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  7. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,524

    Speed Gems
    Member

    That's what i thought @alchemy i've never seen the ones with the aluminum tops before.
     
  8. maybe go over to the Ford Barn and ask...
     
  9. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,524

    Speed Gems
    Member

    That's what i was thinking.
     
  10. quickchangeV8
    Joined: Dec 7, 2010
    Posts: 368

    quickchangeV8
    Member

    Extremely rare! Could be the only two pair of Federal Mogul heads like this that still exist. Very early speed parts and probably only a handful were originally produced.
     
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  11. choptop40
    Joined: Dec 23, 2009
    Posts: 3,579

    choptop40
    Member

    Those are cool..
     
  12. Speed Gems
    Joined: Jul 17, 2012
    Posts: 2,524

    Speed Gems
    Member

  13. mgtstumpy
    Joined: Jul 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,891

    mgtstumpy
    Member

    [​IMG]
    A set of bare Federal Mogul Thermoflow heads without covers were listed on that site in late 2017.
    [​IMG]
    Here's the McGEE roadster with them.
    [​IMG]

    Another set without the casting details and different water outlets to the ones you posted. You could probably count the ones still left today on one or both hands?
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,657

    MrModelT
    Member

    Been a while since I was on....but I found this thread and had to contribute, especially since i now own a set of these.

    These heads are EXCEPTIONALLY rare.
    As far as we know, there are only five surviving sets...including my own. The Federal-Mogul Thermo-Flow Power Heads were designed in 1935 and patented Dec 5th, 1935. The original design was a two-piece style with a Bronze head with open water jackets, and an aluminum top cover to seal them. There were intended for marine use and designed to act as a heat sink to help with both cooling and combustion.

    The only issue was the dissimilar metals issue....which just dissolved and warped the aluminum.

    Sometime between October and November of 1936, the top cover patterns were updated and casting material was changed to Cast Iron. This style continued through the end of 1936. For 1937, the Design was changed completely to the "Waterless" Thermo-Flow head used on the McGee Roadster. This style was produced from 1937 to 1939 in both 21 and 24-stud versions.

    My heads came from the Add posted at the beginning of this thread, so I have a lot of work to do in order to make new Aluminum covers....

    46513506_1140244252801821_829660352986742784_n.jpg

    ~ Mr. Model T
     
  15. biggles
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 80

    biggles
    Member
    from England

    New aluminium covers have just been made here in England.
    Since they will be fitted to my Batten Special, I had the original lettering changed, but that could easily be rectified in the CAD modelling. Since the modelling has already been paid for (by me) the cost of copies of the covers would be the aluminium billets plus CNC machine time. Rights to the modelling will remain here.

    IMG_3237.JPG IMG_3238.JPG text.jpg

    The covers will be fitted with a full gasket to isolate the copper from the aluminium and prevent the galvanic corrosion noted above. Fasteners will be A4 stainless steel coated with Tef-Gel for further corrosion protection and to prevent possible galling of the bolts in the copper.

    I hope that may be of interest here.

    www.battenspecial.com

     
  16. gmgrunt
    Joined: Feb 26, 2005
    Posts: 286

    gmgrunt
    Member

     
  17. gmgrunt
    Joined: Feb 26, 2005
    Posts: 286

    gmgrunt
    Member

    I have a pair of the 1936 copper/aluminum 2pc heads. Any suggestions for the best gasket material to use for the reassembly of the the aluminum back to the copper? Would any of the permatex products work for this application? Or sheet gasket material?
     
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  18. biggles
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 80

    biggles
    Member
    from England

    Hello - sorry for the delay.
    Here in England I use a sheet gasket material called Flexoid which is oil and water resistant, comes on a roll, available in various thicknesses, but any water-resistant sheet material would work. Cork sheet?

    In order to prevent galvanic corrosion the copper and aluminium must be kept completely separate from each other and the aluminium should not come into contact with the water else it will "dissolve" as it did in 1936 which is why F-M went to cast iron covers, which still corroded but not nearly as fast as the aluminium.

    My plan is to use a sheet of gasket paper with holes cut for only the bolt holes and spark plugs, then bolted down with stainless bolts coated in a PTFE gel (Tef-Gel) for further corrosion protection and anti-galling properties.

    I hope that helps.
     
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  19. Flathead Youngin'
    Joined: Jan 10, 2005
    Posts: 3,661

    Flathead Youngin'
    Member

    Oh, slather 'em up with some never-seize and call it good! Shoot, I'll do one better and give you $100 for the pair and I'll even cover shipping....

    They are certainly cool and it's great to see them on here....
     
  20. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,657

    MrModelT
    Member

    I love to see some photos of your heads. What numbers are they? Casting Dates? What Shape are your aluminum covers in? I have a list of all the Surviving heads that we know of. Yours would be set number 7...
     
  21. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,657

    MrModelT
    Member

    Zach and I have been pushing forward on our project to make new covers for our heads. Here are some images of the modeling work thus far...

    received_414863676123088.jpeg

    received_2471695259533493.jpeg
     
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  22. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 10,771

    Tim
    Member
    from Raytown Mo

    Fantastic!
     
  23. gmgrunt
    Joined: Feb 26, 2005
    Posts: 286

    gmgrunt
    Member

    I'm removing some broken bolts for a friend that owns them. I was just looking some info on the proper gasket material to use when I reassemble. Jeff
     

    Attached Files:

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  24. MrModelT
    Joined: Nov 11, 2008
    Posts: 2,657

    MrModelT
    Member

    Check the bottom side of the covers, those are the early one and are NOTORIOUS for rotting and warping.
    There should also be some casting dates on the bronze part of the head (each head has its own date) and a number on each head:

    IMG_1498.JPG

    IMG_1505.JPG
     
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  25. gmgrunt
    Joined: Feb 26, 2005
    Posts: 286

    gmgrunt
    Member

     

    Attached Files:

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  26. gmgrunt
    Joined: Feb 26, 2005
    Posts: 286

    gmgrunt
    Member

    Here
     
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