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Technical How much is too much rust?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by capucapou, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. True, that is fire damage but it's just as bad, I suppose this truck would be more appropriate to the thread. HRP

    poster,504x498,f8f8f8-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u3.jpg
     
  2. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 2,081

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    With all the temper gone from the sheet metal it should hammer & dolly out quite easily:p
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. capucapou
    Joined: May 22, 2020
    Posts: 8

    capucapou

    Wow I didn't expect so many indepth responses. To those who say I went to far to quick, you're absolutely correct. Back in December I made up my mind that I could fabricate all my rust patches despite no skill whatsoever. I kept cutting things out which I really regret. I'm slowly getting the B pillar back into plum but it was really out of wack.

    For the EMS, I actually already have EMS panels for the car. I'll post some pictures of the larger car itself here once I get going on my day but I already have an EMS rocker panel in on the driver side. As well as a front quarter that is laying on the ground in the pictures. I finally caved a bit back and bought some real panels, not the crap I made myself. I did learn something though.

    Currently, I'm leaning more on finding a car that has much more manageable rust. I'm unskilled and every piece removed is a piece I further damage. For the sake of myself and this poor car, it might be in best interest to find something different. Problem is, I've got a one car garage, a fully disassembled classic, and a mother that is tired of her back yard looking like a junk yard. Oh well I'll figure it out.

    Ah how naive me didn't realize how much of a pain in the ass rust is.
     
  4. hotrodjack33
    Joined: Aug 19, 2019
    Posts: 2,081

    hotrodjack33
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Nothing I couldn't fix with some window screen and Dura-Glass:eek:
     
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  5. Vics stuff
    Joined: May 24, 2014
    Posts: 350

    Vics stuff
    Member



    I would have to agree with this quote. That car will as I see it , eat your lunch. I would recommend to find a tribute car to work on. You will be done quicker and way less money spent. Been there and done that.
    Good luck
    Vic
     
    X38 likes this.
  6. Squablow
    Joined: Apr 26, 2005
    Posts: 14,850

    Squablow
    Member

    Just think of how good of a welder/fabricator you'll be by the time you're done.
     
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  7. Corn Fed
    Joined: May 16, 2002
    Posts: 2,942

    Corn Fed
    Member

    I've worked with junk bodies and I've worked with really nice bodies. Really nice is all around way better and I wont start with junk again unless it's a super desirable car like a '32 Ford. My opinion is that yes, it could be saved, but there are plenty of way nicer cars out there that I wouldn't tackle it......EXCEPT that for the fact that it is your Grandpa's car. That is the value that makes it worth rebuilding.
     
  8. gene-koning
    Joined: Oct 28, 2016
    Posts: 2,292

    gene-koning
    Member

    I have to wonder, what does the frame looks like?
    Suspension & brake condition?
    Motor locked up, missing, or turn freely?
    How much stuff is not there, or will need to be replaced?

    There is a lot more to a project then just the sheet metal. When you evaluate a car, you need to look at the entire picture, not just some parts of it.

    The skills you are learning will be useable for your entire life, but there are some things that make the learning curve easier (buying premade panels is one of them, buying the proper tools is another).
    I'm not the guy to ask how much rust it too much, to say I've started with much worse is an understatement, but you are not me. You are the guy that gets to make that decision on that car. I will say if you are going to fit that car, stop cutting it up until you have fixed everything you have already exposed. Then cut the next section and fix that area before you cut something else apart.

    Let me take it from a different perspective. The car in my avatar was a worst rust bucket then what you have (I'll show picture proof). In the avatar, the car is 1500 miles from home (driven there and back). I fixed the rust good enough to get it street worthy, and started driving it. 8 years and 70,000 + miles later, I had to go back in and fix more rust, for the first time since I started driving it (the metal on the roof around the rear window started leaking, something I did not address the first time). I think its good for another 7 or 8 years before some other rust will need to be repaired. At that point how many miles will be on the car? In 7 years I'll be 73 years old, who knows if I'd be up to the fix, or would even care to at that point. I'm not at all sorry about the approach I took with this car. My wife and I have really enjoyed this car.

    Pictures:
    1) This is the rocker on the car as I bought it. You are looking at the rear edge of the driver door post where it was welded to the floor pan. The fork looking thing is the remains of the floor support, at the extreme bottom left side of the picture you can see the frame. There is about 10" of floor and rocker not there.
    2) This is the front body support at the driver side rocker, the piece going towards the top on the left side is the door hinge support. The box on the right side is the car's frame, there was no floor on this side in front of the seat.
    3) This is a different view of the area just behind where picture 2 was taken. Picture 2 would have been just to the left edge of this picture, about under the dent in the stainless trim laying on what was left of the floor pan.
    4) This is what the car looks like now, after finishing up the last round of rust repair, about this time last year.

    It should be made known that I did not rebuild this car like the factory did (nothing is available for it), I installed a complete floor pan from a different vehicle and attached it to the body. The frame was as bad as the body, I replaced the frame with a different frame as well. About the only thing remaining from the original car is the body shell, and it has a lot of patches on it. The entire build on this car took about 15 months, start to driver. Years of experience paying off. Gene
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. I've ripped apart more 53-55 f100s with good intentions and the highest aspirations than anyone. And I'm looking at going over the budget on my car, and then saving my mom's 56 station wagon that ive never been allowed to drive, but its the car she took my first dog to the lake in, and his last ride to the vet in. My advice is learn to weld. Learn to weld GOOD. like go to night school and PAY ATTENTION and learn to weld there good. You'll not only learn metallurgy, but you'll learn how, where and most importantly WHY to weld. And you can make HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS WELDING GOOD. Past that, its all nuts and bolts. Buy manuals, study the hamb, and its all just nuts and bolts. You won't learn shit from the TV or the YouTube, just go study shit. Manuals, ebay, the hamb, etc. My motto is "if God didn't want me to tear into it, he wouldn't have made it out of nuts and bolts." And it's served me well. You may have to tear into it 3,4,5 times before it's right. But keep your nose to the grind stone. Don't be afraid of a parts car either.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  10. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 10,800

    Petejoe
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Tuck it away in a covered dry storage area. Forget about it for now.
    Wait till someday when you have the time, money and commitment to rebuild your grandpas car.
    If you leave this project it will haunt you for the rest of your life.
     
  11. dana barlow
    Joined: May 30, 2006
    Posts: 4,257

    dana barlow
    Member
    from Miami Fla.
    1. Y-blocks

    Skill level an desire make the"Fix or not".:D
    So the same rust for one is not the same rust for the other guy.
    Many rusty cars,would of been a bad deal,even if free,yet they were payed for that way.
    Hats off to those that fixed those anyway !!!!:cool:
     
    alanp561 likes this.
  12. scotts52
    Joined: Apr 7, 2008
    Posts: 2,256

    scotts52
    Member

    I am very tight with my wallet. I hate spending more money than I have to. I'm always on the lookout for a less expensive way of doing things. If that were my car and I was insistent on getting rid of all of the rust, even in the impossible to reach places, here is what I would do.

    Make yourself a very large wooden frame. One that is larger than the car. Line it with the heaviest plastic you can find. What you're trying to do here is make an oversized kiddie pool so it needs to be able to go water and not leak. Put the car in the center of it. Get a small pump, like a sump pump. to recycle the water that will be running off the car. Buy this product www.safestrustremover.com
    Get a small shower type of sprinkler and set it in the center of the car. Make a tent over the car to collect all the aerial water spray so that it runs back into the pool. Hook the sump pump to your sprinkler head. Fill the pool with like 6 inches of the rust remover. Turn it on and let it do it's magic. If it's not hitting everywhere you need, run that area until it's rust free then move the sprinkler. I've soaked parts in this stuff with incredible results. It can be used over and over again for a long time before it loses its effectiveness. Spraying it will allow it to get into all the nooks and crannies. It's not something you can just spray on and watch. It will take a few days to maybe more than a week, depending on the rust, but it'll leave you with clean metal.
    I'm guessing you should be able to do all of this for around $800 and should save you a lot of headache.

    I have my grandpa's 61 Studebaker pickup. I understand sentimental value. You may as well go ahead and learn on this one. It's already started and you've invested a lot already. We all have to learn somehow, somewhere. Go for it!
     
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  13. The op keeps saying he has no skill, none of us were born with skill, we all learned by doing exactly what you are doing, keep picking away at it and keep learning. As someone else said, it’s supposed to be fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using H.A.M.B.
     
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  14. indyjps
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 4,099

    indyjps
    Member

    1) you have a sandblaster, be sure to sandblast everything
    2) dont trust POR15 or other rust converters. Get things to bare metal and use an acid etch or epoxy primer, not rattle can.
    3) buy a harbor freight hvlp and modufy to shoot primer( youtube) or cheap primer hvlp. Youll need to be able to shoot your own paint.
    4) start making little patch panels yourself, hammer, dolly, vice, angle iron, clamps, round rod. You can make a lot of what you need. An old car hood or washing machine case can make a lot of patch panels, match up steel thickness.
    5) practice your welding, get used to welding sheet metal together and see how the gap closes up or the panels move as you add tacks. Its a lot different than running bead on thicker material. If you have oxy / acetylene tanks, gas welding sheetmetal is a nice way to go, softer welds that will hammer and dolly, and way less material to grind away.
    6) the parts that will unbolt can be acid dipped by you. Old hot tub, wood frame with plastic liner, kiddy swiming pool etc. Citric acid will clean up a lot of rust. Parts need neutralized and flushed well (baking soda and water)
    7) look for car models that use same sheetmetal for a donor, high trim level = high dollar, might not need a victoria, just that year ford. See what sheetmetal is common from 4 doors etc.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  15. Ben38
    Joined: Jun 9, 2010
    Posts: 25

    Ben38
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Subscribe to Fitzee’s YouTube channel. Lots of really good stuff there.
     
  16. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,227

    wvenfield
    Member

    How much is all about who is doing the work. I've seem some here that I would argue there is no such thing as too much.

    Now I will also note that this would be a ton of work for you and a huge learning curve BUT you are young. WOrk on it slowly. Learn how to do something and work on it. What if it take you 10 years? You have them.
     
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  17. F-ONE
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 2,531

    F-ONE
    Member
    from Alabama

    The OP has a heck of a lot of skill, especially if he's a "one man band". Just look what he has done so far!
    Right now I think he is demoralized and overwhelmed.
    He's selling his self and his project short.
    The work he has done so far is good. Just look at what he has invested in time, panels and labor.
    This kid needs encouragement.
    From what I see the car ain't that bad! I would say it's typical.
     
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  18. 61SuperMonza
    Joined: Nov 16, 2020
    Posts: 488

    61SuperMonza
    Member

    The dude just needs to relax. Have a buddy come over and help him out. Some one who is a good welder and likes to BS a bit while doing it.
    When you take these projects to seriously they begin to be a pain in the ass.
    I agree that the work that has been done isn't a hack job. Looks good from the pics.
    Keep up the work, it will be worth it.
    First relax and have a beer and get a plan together to build it.
     
  19. SS327
    Joined: Sep 11, 2017
    Posts: 183

    SS327

    We would kill for a car that old and solid in Indiana. I wish I had one of my grandfather’s cars to restore. I was 7 when he died. Stick with it even if you work on it a year or so then have to put it away for a while. It don’t cost anything to let it sit but can cost a fortune to buy it back. Gramps would be proud of your new skill. When some of these guys were building cars in the 50’s - 70’s they forget Detroit was still building the old cars cause they were new then. The guys on the west coast and in the south they don’t know what rust is. The lucky bastards they don’t know how good they have it and how spoiled they are. I agree with the guy who said build a pool a pump and a shower head with safest rust remover.
     
    scotts52 likes this.
  20. A little too much rust!:eek::D:p

    57plymoth003.jpg
     
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  21. Dangerous Dan
    Joined: Jul 10, 2011
    Posts: 364

    Dangerous Dan
    Member
    from Graham Wa.

    This is to much!!! rust remover.png
     
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  22. pigIRON63
    Joined: Nov 25, 2019
    Posts: 174

    pigIRON63
    Member

    I would fix it to the point that it is solid enough to drive, rattle can it, throw a seat in it and cruise it. Once it is on the road, you can enjoy it, and start working on areas that still need attention. In the 80s and 90s guys wouldn't be caught dead in an unfinished car, there were cars taken apart then that are still apart because of egos. I know first hand how this works, my dad took apart a 68 rs/ss drop top Camaro in '85. To this day it has never been assembled again. Don't listen to the guys telling you to box it up and put it in storage, "out of sight, out of mind" is the worst thing you can do to a project. I took over my dad's abandoned project and it still isn't finished, but I try to work on it every now and then. It's getting closer. Like I said, get it on the road where you can enjoy it, then try to perfect it.
     
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  23. ems customer service
    Joined: Nov 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,572

    ems customer service
    Member

    thanks for buying from us-----ems auto
     
  24. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 1,540

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    " Rust Never Sleeps " Neil Young
     
  25. Mahty
    Joined: Nov 20, 2016
    Posts: 51

    Mahty

    If you enjoy the work, then go for it. If not, and you just want it done, it will end up pissing you off with your experience level.
    I could never finish my car and be perfectly happy, because I like the work.
    Not too much rust IMO, but if you’re going to save it for later, I’d put something on all the rust, like phosphoric acid, to keep if from rusting away while it waits for you.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  26. The late Gene Akins at Rockmart GA, who taught me everything I know about body work, gave me a good rule of thumb: "I know how to weld metal to metal. Never have figured out how to weld metal to air."
     
  27. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,521

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    In my opinion there's a huge difference between having no skills dealing with rust, and having a little skill dealing with rusted out projects. I wouldn't toss my kid into the deep end of the pool and tell them to learn to swim!
    Having done various levels of rust repair before taking on a huge repair is one thing. But starting out doing a very extensive rust repair job with no exposure previously is another. Big jobs are a challenge for most builders, but can become overwhelming to a novice pretty quickly.
     
  28. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 2,715

    goldmountain

    What do you have for tools? You are working in a one car garage and there isn't a lot of room to work there. There are lots of great threads here and elsewhere on the internet but they show big garages, great tools and guys who have lots of experience doing this work. Great information but you have to see how to apply it to your situation. One bite at a time. With the exception of the guys who have gearhead fathers or grandfathers, we all started where you are.
     
  29. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 6,521

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Guess I'd argue about big garages needed to do extensive rust and rotted metal repairs. Since my last three cars were built in my 10'x20' metal building. And the closest thing I have to being a great tool is my Millermatic wire feed. The rest are hand tools, and anvil. If I need any big bends done I take my metal to a local sheet metal shop and give him a diagram of what I need for bends. Had him bend up all my inner and outer rockers, plus a few other long pieces for my current build.
    You can get an idea of how tight it is in this picture right after I finished all the metal repair, engine, suspension, and finally bodywork and paint in the same tiny space.
    [​IMG]
     
  30. goldmountain
    Joined: Jun 12, 2016
    Posts: 2,715

    goldmountain

    You sir, have better organizing skills than I have. I'm a bit of a slob with stuff all over the place.

    Sent from my SM-T350 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     

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