How much is a MUNCIE M22 now? and some questions

whats the difference between a m22 and an m21?

I'm being forced to go muncie,
but they seem to BE alot of money,,,

Seems to be popular with 4x4 guys.....

never ran one of them and never knew they were valuable or i would have kept the one they left in the old shop........

what makes them good?

I like the t-10's they seem strong enough...

 

M22's have straight cut gears and were used mainly in big block cars. Gearing is different in M20's, 21's and 22's.

 

The M-21 was the 'standard' Muncie 4-speed, and the M-22 was the heavier duty "Rock Crusher" tranny...straight-cut gears made it a noisy trans, hence the nickname.

A Super T-10 is probably about as strong as an M-21 and would make a good tranny for your Shitbox if you can get one cheaper than a Muncie. If you drive it hard enough, you'll tear up ANY trans...but the T-10 and Muncies are good units to start with.

I still believe in the lowly Saginaw...but I think YOU will want something more stout for your endeavors!

(I believe that the price of the Muncies today are due as much to their status amongst musclecar guys as it is to their strength....Camaro and Chevelle jockeys stand in line to buy 'em. I know...I had a couple Muncie-equipped Chevelles myself as a kid...back when they were cheap toys to play with!!)

 

Here's a link for some more info. I just put an M22 in my coupe. Doesn't strike me a Hellfire Traditional, though.

http://www.nastyz28.com/transid.html

 

The M22 "Rockcrusher" as it was called went behind the LS6, L88 and other hi po GM stuff as early as '65 in vettes. The M22 and M21 were close ratio trannies for hi performance (3.73 or lower). M20 was the wide ratio version (3.55 or higher). The M22 had heavier syncros, sharper gear cuts heavy duty shafts and bearings. M22 and M21 share the same case.
The only reason the are more valuable is the muscle car guy drive up the prices for date coded transmissions. I've seen them as high as $1500 US!
If you can find any M series cheap, buy 'em.
The Super T10 is a great trans and GM has many hi po upgrades for it. Detent and spring kits as well as HD syncros etc.
Hope this helps a bit.

 

Last M-21 I bought was about 16 years ago and I gave $150 for it. Rock Crushers were going for closer to $400 at that time. Nowadays they are probably a lot higher, especially out where you live.

I think the M-22 was a close Ratio tranny, besides being stouter than the M-21. My old man had a Brand New '67 SS Chevelle with the 350 horse 396. He said his had the M-21 in it and he never tore it up. The M-21 I had went in a Vega Wagon with a 350. I never tore it up either, but the light weight of the Vega probably had a lot to do with that.

 

Beware people calling ANY muncie a "rock crusher or m22"...Easiest way to spot an M22 is the input shaft has fine splines

 

It's one of those things that a GUY keeps BREATHING in my EAR, that this TRANNY will be BEST,,,

I like the t-10 myself, with the FORD stuff.......

I don't really see it,,,
with this muncie,,,

do you think the HYPE sent the cost UPWARDS?
I have a HUNCH,,

I will investigate,
Thanks for the IMPUT.......

Seems like 4 speed cars were sent to washington and oregon alot...

 

At different times, I had both a wide and a close ratio M21 behind my semi built 394,

with both Hurst Competition Plus and Verticle Gate shifters.

Of the defferent combos, I liked the wide ratio with the Verticle Gate best.

I paid roughly 4 bills for each setup, trans and shifter fresh rebuilt.

That's two setups for just over half the price of one M22.

Paul

 

http://www.interlog.com/~muncie/history.html

 

Germ, I gave away a couple 4 speeds to a buddy for a cobra kit car he was building. He has never used them, so its possable I could get them back if youre interested. I'm really not into sticks but I know they were all aluminum & had the fine input shafts.I think they were out of mid 70s trans ams. I'll find out more about them when he gets back on monday if you want. Dave

 

A buddy of mine bought an '81 El camino that someone put a 350 and an M22 in for 200 bucks. It ran great and everything. He sold the tranny with all the linkage and the bellhousing for 400 bucks.

 

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I'm really not into sticks

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Odd from a guy named "shifts".

 

The M22 was developed for road racing not drag racing (like most people think) where the gears didn't have as much load on the bearings. The straighter angle of the gearset produced less heat and less end loading of the gear train. The M22 is not straight cut like a lot of people think, they are just straighter than the M21 and M20's. The M22's and the M21's had the same gear ratios.

 

A couple weeks ago at the Long Beach swapmeet I saw a rebuilt M22 for $2700,-(!!!)
There's a guy some where in the midwest or whatever who builts complete aftermarket M22's, for, I think, $2200,-
That's all way to expensive! And it's for ultra high horsepower cars.
M21's and M20's are way cheaper... I bet you can find a good deal if you look around long enough.
I put an M20 in my car a few months ago... Great gearbox! I love it... I got me a rebuilt kit for it at Caltrans in Santa Ana, CA.
But I paid muchos $$$ for the gearbox, even for the M20, because I found mine overhere in The Netherlands, Europe... My car is one of the, well, maybe 10 manual shifted Chevrolets in the whole country!
Maybe you can use some stuff from the links below, they have some identfication info on there:

http://www.5speeds.com/muncie2.htm

http://www.gearzone.net/kit.htm

 

Buzzard, I get that a lot, esp owning a transmission shop. However we have specialized in automatics from day one & that was a long time ago. Dave

 

gotcha. Just caught my eye.

 

hatch, all car munices 71 on up had fine spline inputs.Had 100s of people tell me that they had a m22 not many really did.

 

Hell Ya!

REBUILT M22`s are going for around 1500+ smackers! A REBUILT `Super` T-10 (the next generation T-10) is around 850. There are a couple of ST-10`s on e-gay in the 400 range, but they arent rebuilt, so you take your chances. ST-10`s are plenty strong, I have one behind a big block in my 51 Chevy Coupe.

 

A few months ago, I sold two M-21's (one was good, the other parts only) for 350 dollars for both. A couple of months later I watched two M-22's sell at an auction for 350 dollars each.That was in southwest MO.

 

Take a look at this... It's more goldchainer oriented... but I'd love to have one of these transmissions!

http://www.jetboatbill.com/m22new2.htm

 

Germ I use the Saginaw Iron case in my early stuff- I thrash the shit outa my stuff- My point is this,these cars are light-and if all [wheel hop] is eliminated and a good Hurst shifter is used so you can shift quick- ,You'd never tear one of them up........I buy every one I find-usually 75-150 per trans

 

M20= 20 degree gear cut
M21 = 21 degree gear cut
M 22= 22 degree gear cut saw this in Street Rodder Mag--FEDER

 

Is a cast iron saginaw 4 speed alot less heavy duty than a muncie m20-22? What kinda horsepower would a saginaw hold up to?

 

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M20= 20 degree gear cut
M21 = 21 degree gear cut
M 22= 22 degree gear cut saw this in Street Rodder Mag--FEDER

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well I'll be damned.

'didn't know that.

Paul

 

I must admit I have never been able to keep the different trans apart. So what is this then? Borg Warner something? Any good?

 

So I have a question for ya. A friend of mine gave me a GM four speed, (just to make room!) He thought it was a Muncie, but I haven't looked at it close. How do I tell what it is exactly? If its a M22 (which I doubt) its going up for sale!

 

I just got a m-21 close ratio and the hurst competition-plus shifter with it for 350 bucks at a swap meet a couple of weeks ago. The tranny looked brand new inside...guy said it had just been rebuilt and it looked like it too. Most of the m-21's I've seen lately at the swaps have been going for between 5-6 hundred dollars rebuilt.

 

[ QUOTE ]
So I have a question for ya. A friend of mine gave me a GM four speed, (just to make room!) He thought it was a Muncie, but I haven't looked at it close. How do I tell what it is exactly? If its a M22 (which I doubt) its going up for sale!

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here...again...http://www.interlog.com/~muncie/history.html

 

http://www.mrgasket.com/ftp/pdf/TrannyID.pdf