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Technical How I over thought a fuel pump mount

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gbrown, Mar 30, 2022.

  1. gbrown
    Joined: Jun 12, 2007
    Posts: 355


    So I wasn’t going to post this but then I thought ehhh what the hell maybe someone will get something out of this.

    First the backstory:
    About a year ago I lost the electric fuel pump on my 1935 Ford Slantback Sedan on the Southwest Missouri Hot Rod Hundred Event. I was able to get it repaired and make the cruise thanks to A LOT of good guys that stopped and helped. Car people really are the best.

    Me and my little guy fixing the car. Photo by Dennis Parks.

    The one thing I took from this experience was just carry an extra pump. Their small fairly cheap and the next time one goes out on me I might not be so fortunate to have so many car guys around to help me.

    So I did. I went all over the summer of ‘21, Louisville, Pete and James, Oklahoma, all over. Then on the way back from the gathering at the roc I lost the fuel pump again. This time I was more prepared and fixed it on the side of the road in about 20 minutes. I started thinking what can I do to make this easier on me.

    The Plan:
    The first thing I did was buy a nicer pump. Went with the Carter P4594 pump. And then decided to remake the mount so I could mount two electric fuel pumps off of one mount. That way if I lost the Carter pump I could switch over to the Edelbrock that has gotten me home twice now.

    My original intent was just to make this out of sheet metal but then I stumbled upon You can upload a design to their site and they will laser cut it out of whatever material you spec out.

    So I made the design in illustrator (I’m an art director for an ad agency for my day job) and sent them my file. A few days later I got my mount in the mail. To my surprise my ability to read a pair of calipers proved to be dead on the money. Now if I lose an electric pump I simply switch hoses to the back up pump and unplug one weather proof connect and plug it into the other one.

    But I hope I don’t have to. See pictures below for a better representation of what I did. After doing this and my 3D printed waterfall I’ve discovered that I really like making these one off parts that have a real world purpose. I have started another MUCH more ambitious project and hope to be posting about it soon.

    99981517-7D33-4E58-96C8-62A752C760A5.jpeg 9C31B6B5-34F1-43E0-82C8-94084DC73F76.jpeg B640B1E8-B288-41E2-BF06-980A43F356A6.jpeg D4158FAF-F0FC-408C-B05D-41ED5C3CADF0.jpeg

    cfmvw, mgtstumpy, swade41 and 12 others like this.
  2. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 51,164


    looks good!

    I usually get 5-10 years out of a holley pump....and I put a lot of miles on them
    Lloyd's paint & glass likes this.
  3. Neat dual pump mount. Very creative.

    My question would be, why did two Carter pumps fail in such a short time? They are known to be fairly dependable.
    Hnstray likes this.
  4. gbrown
    Joined: Jun 12, 2007
    Posts: 355


    Thanks. I originally had a Holley Red on there. I wanted to see if it was rebuildable but then when talking to Holley they talked me into going with their new redesigned Holley Might Mite pump.

    So far (knock on wood) I have experienced no failures with a Carter pump. The first failure was on a Holley Red pump and the second was on the Holley recommended Mighty Mite pump. After that I researched and decided to switch brands and had read good stuff about the Carter pumps so I decided to give them a shot. Their lifetime warranty gave me more confidence over the Holley 90 day warranty.

  5. Rramjet1
    Joined: Mar 13, 2018
    Posts: 208


    I’m running Holley on my avatar. So far so good but my mechanic did suggest I switch to a Carter because mine will run out of fuel on real heavy acceleration. He found out when checking out a transmission kick-down cable he had installed. Guess I just haven’t been hard enough on it to find out.
    bantam likes this.
  6. PotvinV8
    Joined: Mar 30, 2009
    Posts: 219


    Cool mount, I like your design. If you continue to suffer from fuel pump failures, I would put the next pump in the tank, if possible. The surrounding fuel keeps the pump cool, which is what kills them a lot of the time (heat). Think of how hot the pump gets sitting under the car near the exhaust on a hot day versus sitting inside the fuel tank.

    Holley makes a retrofit pump that will drop in just about any tank with a decent sized horizontal surface. All that's required is a hole saw for installation. The pump uses a Hydramat fuel reservoir on the end of the pickup tube so there's no worries about picking up any of the crap from drilling the hole or whatever else might be in the tank as it acts as a 15 micron pre-filter. Food for thought for yourself or anyone else having electric fuel pump issues.
    Hnstray and 41 GMC K-18 like this.
  7. gbrown
    Joined: Jun 12, 2007
    Posts: 355


    The car is running a tanks inc., fuel tank and already has the big hole on top for putting an in-tank fuel pump in it. Honestly if I’m going to the trouble of putting an in-tank pump in it I’ll also swap it from carb to fuel injection.
    firstinsteele and 41 GMC K-18 like this.
  8. Casual 6
    Joined: May 25, 2008
    Posts: 260

    Casual 6
    from Great NW

    Pretty nice work from Not just cutting the shape but doing the bend too.

    I didn't know laser cutting could limit the depth of cut - on the "THE 35" text.
  9. jazz1
    Joined: Apr 30, 2011
    Posts: 1,510


    Is that model pump loud?
    I have a Carter electric pump on my old truck…one thing is its loud, always has been and its mounted on isolators.
  10. gbrown
    Joined: Jun 12, 2007
    Posts: 355


    I thought they did an excellent job. The "THE 35" is cut all the way through the material.

    Here is my scale of loudness to try and give you some idea of how loud it is.

    Holley Red Electric Fuel Pump - Loudest

    Holley Mighty Might - Could hear from inside and outside with the car at an idle

    Carter P4594 Pump - Can hear from outside and inside the car when the car is NOT running. Can not hear once the car is running.

    Edelbrock Electric Pump (my backup pump) - Quietest - Can barely hear when the car is off and the key is on.
    jazz1 likes this.
  11. Thats a great piece! There is a streamliner being built on Youtube using lotsa parts cut by them. First I had heard of them.
  12. Tim
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 13,668

    from KCMO

  13. guthriesmith
    Joined: Aug 17, 2006
    Posts: 6,655

    1. H.A.M.B. Chapel

    Looks good Quinten! Can’t believe you lost another pump already! See you in a couple weeks.
  14. Blues4U
    Joined: Oct 1, 2015
    Posts: 6,591

    from So Cal

    Ya know, with a couple of valves and creative plumbing you could simply switch the valves and be back on the road rather than swapping hoses on the side of the road....
    cfmvw, Hnstray, mad mikey and 3 others like this.
  15. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 22,677


    I had one fail in less than 5,000 miles. I took it apart and couldn’t find anything obvious. Diaphragm was still in tact. It would run, but no fuel output. I guess it was stuck in bypass. Mine was mounted 12” from the tank. The only thing I can think of is I have a “Tanks” fuel tank with the siphon feed from the top. Wondering if the added climb to the top of the tank is shortening the life.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
    41 GMC K-18 likes this.
  16. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 4,060

    from illinois

    You have over 425 horsepower ?
  17. 2OLD2FAST
    Joined: Feb 3, 2010
    Posts: 4,060

    from illinois

    My 17 year old $49 eBay holley clone black pump is just fine after 40k miles . Fuel comes from the bottom of the tank then pushes through a fram canister filter , battery power comes from the battery , 18" away through a fused 30 amp relay.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
  18. gbrown
    Joined: Jun 12, 2007
    Posts: 355


    Thanks for the kind words. If you know the channel name please pass it along. I enjoy watching stuff like that.

    Thank you!

    I'm just grateful I was back from Louisville and then it went out. Coming back from Louisville I was on the road LATE at night so that would have been a mess. This one started going out on my way home from the Gathering, I did not completely loose it like I did the first one during the hundred. The second one just started cutting when I would try to push the car over 55. It was around 3 or 4 pm when I finally pulled over and said okay I gotta fix this. While I was pulled over the gentleman that runs the Opposing Cylinders site pulled over and stayed behind me as a limped the car into the next exit so i could work away from the side of the highway.

    I seriously thought about that but I would say i could switch this over in 7 minutes or less so I don't know if all the extra work would be worth it.

    Mine is setup the same way. From what I have read is that these electric pumps are better at pushing fuel than they are sucking fuel up and to them from the tank. So I agree we are shortening there life spans, some more than others.
    guthriesmith likes this.
  19. @gbrown
    Do you run a mechanical engine driven pump also?
    On my SBC rod, I only use my electric pump to prime the carb after it sits unused for a few days, or if I get a vapor lock on the highway.
    The rest of the time I run on the mechanical pump only. I suspect the electric pump will last indefinitely, and it should get me home if the mechanical pump fails.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2022
    Blues4U, Hnstray and Desoto291Hemi like this.

  20. Here you go, he just got going on the liner, only a handful of episodes.
    SuperfastMatt - YouTube
  21. gbrown
    Joined: Jun 12, 2007
    Posts: 355


    I have a vortech 350 out of a 90's chevy truck. On those motors even though they are a 350 they do not have the bosses and fuel pump rod hole drilled. Since these trucks were fuel injection. So I can't run a mechanical pump unfortunately. If I could I would already have one on there for sure.
    2OLD2FAST and pprather like this.
  22. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 22,677


    No, the engine in the produce truck is a later model block with no provisions for a mechanical.

    i am going to see if it was a fluke, but if it happens again, I may have to redesign the fuel pump. I may have to replace it with an in tank pump.
    pprather likes this.
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 8,634


    Would I be a dick if I told you the brackets used to come that way? Double pattern, why I don't know. I always thought same part for different pumps. I'm going back to the early 80s or even earlier. But that is kool. Roll your own...;)

  24. That last sentence. You would never be sorry. Believe you me. I have run an Airtex E 8094 for 10 years and 20000 mi +.

  25. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 22,677


    Do you have to have a regulator? What pressures are you running?
  26. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 7,462

    seb fontana
    from ct

    What kind of electric pump are you using? Unless a bypass check valve is used I don't think/know if the the engine mech pump can pull through a rotary/vane type pump. I know the mech pump can pull through a pulse type, at least for normal driving.
  27. @seb fontana
    I have the Carter 4070 electric pump.
    I've put 50k miles on this rod the past ten years.
  28. gotmark73
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 145


    I am planning to run 2 pumps on my T Build. My plan is to run two different depth pickup lines so I also have reserve, like a motorcycle

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