How do you push an early Ford front axle out?

I've seen some nice rods on the internet that have the factory beam front axle pushed out in front of the frame horns. How do you do this? I like this approach to lowering the front rather than buying a drop axle.

Thanks,
Untame

 

Mount the spring between the bones....

 

Its called a suicide perch' Check out any T bucket.

 

For real.............??????

 

I wasn't sure what it was called -- "suicide perch" -- thanks for the tip.

Not sure what "the bones" are...

Untame

 

please leave the old cars alone. and then start reading some books about it. come back in 6 months and then you can show us what you learned.

 

easy guys, we all had to start somewhere....

 

Not me, I've always known it all.

And I'm humble too.

 

yeah that is called suicide front suspension. There is prabably more to it that you are expecting. Look it up and study as much as you can first.

 

if you see those cars, try and find out who did the work. been doing front end work for apx 35 years, and there is A LOT more than meets the eye. damn sure have it done right, don't kill yoursef and/or others doin it halffast.

 

I have to agree with his guy as well, and disagree the the guy who said "ease guys". If this kid was asking about adding a set of duals or something like that, I'd agree with letting him go ahead. But this is a suicide front end and this kid doesn't even know what "bones" are. I always though just about anything goes, but safety first for cripes sake. Sure we all have to start someplace, but do it like we did; read the magazines, go to car shows, hang around with any car guys you can find hot rodders preferably, but if you can't find any, muscle car guys, sports car fanatics, or maybe even a farmer or two.

I see posts like this, where somebody is way beyond their depth, and even though I probably know the correct answer, I refrain from posting, because I don't want to contribute to any problems that may arise, to say nothing of the possiblity of them ruining scarce (and getting scarcer) old parts.

 

The problem with a suicide front end is the Akerman(sp) theory. The tie rod ends and the spindle bolts are suppose to form a line with the center of the rear end. The suicide front end usually places the tie rod in front of the axle and this creates a hard to handle car when going around a curve.You will see all kinds of solutions which include steering stabilizers mounted between the frame and the the tie rod. The Ackermam theory is suppose to let the inside tire turn sharper than the outside tire and you will not shimmy when going around a curve. A lot of people dispute Akerman theory.If you can install a suicide front end and keep the tie rod behind the axle and the imaginary line to the center line of the rear end the car will handle better.

There will probably be a lot of posts on this thread. If you can lower the car without a suicide front end you will have less handling problems.

 

And asking a question here is not "educating myself"?

Thank you... even though I'm not a car noob. This is my first Model A project.

Kid?... way beyond my depth? Sorry I didn't know "bones" was slang for the wishbone.

Untame

 

Not at all, you will see tons of suicide perch or bulldog perch cars with good ackerman and the tierod BEHIND the axle where it belongs. Those that dont are usually either lazy or without a torch to drop the steering arms or building a rat rod.

 

Since this is you first model A build buy this book How to build a traditional ford hot rod by Mike Bishop and Vern Tardel. Best $20 bucks you'll ever spend. Though they don't show the Doane Spencer style front end your looking for.... I don't think.

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/howtobutrfoh.html

 

This is my Model A that I'm currently building. It has the crossmember set back 2" and the spring mounts are built onto the wishbones. I have the deep drop bolt on steering arms so it has the correct ackerman. Its a lot of work but it can be done safely and with the correct geometry just do a lot of research first.

 

Tman

I did not say all were had bad Ackerman. I have seen all kinds of cars with a suicide front ends. They were not all rat rods and some were built by some famous builders.

I hope to have a face to face with you a week from Saturday.We can discuss this post and few others that I question. Just kidding.

 

Famous only means they got ink, not that they know shit from Shinola! (I am 41, should I know that phrase, oreven where it comes from!?)

Yes, HAMB Breakfast in the Hills, look forward to it.

 

Thanks for the tip. I've read this book, and I got some good info out of it. The most beneficial books I've read are those by Don Montgomery (I'd like to own a complete set).

Thanks for sharing -- I'll give it a good look over.

BTW... I'm not set on a suicide front end. I just wanted to know more about it. I like to keep all of my options open before making up my mind.

Untame

 

Untame, there is another way to push a Ford axle out in front. That being, quarter eliptic springs. They mount directly to the axle and will get your front end way down. Do a search here on the HAMB, lots of good info about quarter eliptic front ends.

..............Jack

 

question, why lower the car that much? whats wrong with just running a highboy?

 

I supoose that kid is a bit harsh here these days, my youngest is 40 this year. But just to remain PC we'll call you person from here on out.

Not to defend anyone, they are all grown ups and can probably defend them selves, never the less I think the idea about educating yourself has to do with doing a little bit of reading and find out what some of the slang is.

As far as having some understanding of Akerman a quick search will help you with that. I'm not sure that I have ever seen anyone dispute Akerman at least not on this board.

But you donot have to move the tie rod to the front of the axle to build a suicide frontend. Not that it makes a lot of difference if you move the axle you have affected the Akerman anyway. Any time you drop one you have to tweek the steering arms, that is how you make adjustments for differences that you have made in steering geometry. Its not all that hard to grasp but the search function is helpful as well as asking questions.

Steering arms are those little doodad thingys that stick out of the spindle which is the little back and forth thing on the end of the axle and you already know what the axle is.

I'll even bet that there is a thread discussing hot rod slang, but if not maybe you can start one. If someone pitches you a bitch about it tell 'em the 'beaner wanted you to do it. It won't change a damned thing but it will make me feel important and that's why I'm here.

Anyway don't take offense person its a HAMB thing to make you feel smaller than you really are.

 

Untame

Those were good replies and I am here to learn too. You will get help from all over the world here. Some of the the treads by the all knowing can make you wonder if they know shit from shoe polish. Just keep asking questions and you will learn. Some of it you will have to ignore and consider the source.

Good luck

 

Here's how I "pushed" my front end out to get lower....with a drop axle as well.
I don't know if this is "considered" a SUICIDE front end,,,,,seeing that if the spring were to fail, the axle would just hit the frame. I did it this way as I'm not a fan of cut off frame horns and tall suicide perches....

 

Check this thread out as well......

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505979&highlight=rolling+bones+front+end

 

Actually the spring behind the axle is a pretty good way to loose some height although as of late the naysayers have been saying that the bones won't hold the weight. I agree with their logic although in practical application I have seen quite the opposite.

A suicide front end won't necessarliy lower one. Take a look at those Awful Altereds of by-gone days. The idea was to move the axle away from the center of the vehicle and thus alter the weight bias for better traction. Moving the axle forward gives you the same basic effect as moving the engine back.

I have seen suicide type perches used with the frame horns still attached or even extended to limit the visual effect of the suicide front end. Some cars actually look better that way and still enjoy the effect of the stretched wheel base.

 

This thread is full of bullshit. This guy comes on here to ask how to do something that he has never done before and gets flak for it. What has the HAMB come too? You got guys asking why does want to lower it that much, guys saying educate yourself and come back in six months to tell us you learned.

I guess we are no longer allowed to post any questions, we should do a search instead. I've done that but most times it's not what I'm looking for. Why does he want to lower it that much? Because it's his car and that's what he wants. He didn't come on here wanting to know how to put 32's on a '86 Caprice. He wanted to know about 'bones and suicide perches. Either help him or shut up! I'm pretty sure we don't know the depths of this fellas skill. Hell for all we know he could be building an airplane under a tarp in his driveway and decide he was bored with it for now but like hotrods to so he gives it a whirl.

If I'm out of line and step on toes so be it.

 

I wear steel toed boots but I thought that I would point out the obvious to you. Neither have you answered his question.

 

No I haven't because I don't know how. I would like too. That's why I opened the thread. But you know it's starting to seem to me that any questions that are asked are met more and more with these kind of responses. Like I said, if I stepped on your toes, oh well.

 

I smell Tech Week on the Horizon.....