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Technical How do I know if I need wheel spaces

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Pothole, Aug 31, 2019.

  1. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Folks, I read so much about wheel spacers being required but can not locate a reference that would tell me if I should have them or not. My hubs are 1940 with new drums. Rather than one piece hub/drum I now have two since the hub and drum are no longer joined. When mounting the drum I have a small about of wiggle room between the studs and the drum holes. This might be normal but I am trying to provide a much info as possible. The wheels are 34 wheels. I currently am not using spacers but don't know enough to know if I need them or not. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. The Shift Wizard
    Joined: Jan 10, 2017
    Posts: 1,363

    The Shift Wizard
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I couldn't say that there's a hard and fast rule that dictates wheel spacers. As long as everything clears, it becomes an aesthetic reason to use them or not, usually done to even up the width front to back. Speaking of "aestheics", on a fenderless/open wheel set up the spacers are right there, in your face and you can't really hide them.

    Get ready for more opinions from the gang. I'm sure posts are on the way. :)
     
    dana barlow likes this.
  3. You need support rings to run wire wheels on late drums, if that is what you mean by spacers

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    dwollam, Hnstray, Tim and 4 others like this.
  4. 19Fordy
    Joined: May 17, 2003
    Posts: 6,385

    19Fordy
    Member

    I am not sure if you are referring to lateral movement inward and outward OR
    concentricity with the hub once installed.
     
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  5. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I would say concentricity if I understand the term correctly. Simply put I would say the holes are slightly larger than the stud seats so the drum "wiggles" in a circular movement. They do not fit snug.
     
  6. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Rich you have added a new term for me "support rings". Please give me a definition for the term. I have just heard "spacers" which I understand are required on some configurations. Thanks, Pothole
     
  7. egads
    Joined: Aug 23, 2011
    Posts: 492

    egads
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  8. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 25,414

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    THIS

    A must have or you risk damaging the centers of the Ford Wire wheels when you tighten the lug nuts down if you have't already done so.
     
    town sedan likes this.
  9. Drums are not always "tight" on the studs; but the center hole should fit snug on the hub register. This may let you turn the drum slightly; but only unto you tighten down the lug nuts.
     
    egads likes this.
  10. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thank you Mr48Chev, That is the "why" I was looking for. So any wire wheels on 40 drums require them to keep from damaging Ford wire wheels when tightening. Damn, I have tightened mine several times but regardless I am ordering a set. In order to clear up my first post describing the drum I am sending pics. You can clearly see the spacing around the studs. The studs and drum were supplied together. A local machine shop removed the old studs and put the new ones in the hub. I just completed a 30 mile test drive and all seemed to be OK. Front hubs/drums are original. Thanks for all your assistance. 100_2247.JPG 100_2248.JPG 100_2249.JPG
     
  11. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 25,414

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    If you have a stock Model A Through 35 drum laying around you will see that the drum has a step in the mounting surface for the wheel That's why there is a need for the ring with the step. I was going to take a photo of one I have and post it but didn't get the weeds pulled to dig it out.
     
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  12. dwollam likes this.
  13. swifty
    Joined: Dec 25, 2005
    Posts: 1,559

    swifty
    Member

    Your wheels are 35 Ford as they are 16", 33 and 34 wheels are 17"
    To run those wheels with your 40 Ford drums and hubs you definitely need the wire wheel support discs as posted by @egads above.
     
    dwollam likes this.
  14. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Thanks swifty, they are now on order with Speedway. I think I am going to paint the thing green to reflect my early ford knowledge.
     
  15. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I hope this thread is still open and I can add a related question. As stated I have ordered the support rings but is there a work around? When I first got the car and removed the model A wheels(it already had 40s drums) there were washers on each hub bolt. I didn't think anything of it because I was going to replace the A wheels. Now in prep for the new support rings I measured the hub bolts, the rears are 1.25" and the fronts are 3/4" so there is a chance the fronts are to short. Replacing the hubs, drums, and bearings would run over 500.00, finding just bolts and having a machine shop switch them out could be around 200. So I was wondering about the washers I removed early in the project. One pic below shows the washers(1 on one bolt and two on another) and the other pic show the rear surface of the wheel. You can clearly see the black smug marks on the raised area that made contact with the drum. Will a washer work as a temporary fix until I can afford to do it right by replacing the hubs/drums? Sorry this is long. 100_2252.JPG 100_2255.JPG
     
  16. dwollam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2012
    Posts: 784

    dwollam
    Member

    Never use those washers. That was the previous owners failed attempt at the adapters you said you ordered from Speedway. The adapters are hardly if any thicker than the washers.

    Dave
     
  17. HotRodWorks
    Joined: Dec 6, 2005
    Posts: 247

    HotRodWorks
    Alliance Vendor

    [​IMG]

    You’ll notice that the spot circled in red protrudes more than the area noted in blue. The spacer rings will support the area in blue. The washers really don’t do that well.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    dwollam likes this.
  18. Pothole
    Joined: Dec 14, 2017
    Posts: 59

    Pothole
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    OK Dave and HotRodWorks, I'll wait for the parts to arrive and go the new bolt/machine shop path if needed. The washers have been returned to the bolt box. I really appreciate HotRod's red-blue marking on my pic showing where support is needed highlighting the need for the support rings.
     
    dwollam and HotRodWorks like this.

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