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Hotrod Ethics...I Have A Question Of Those Who Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by monkey's wrench, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Bigcheese327
    Joined: Sep 16, 2001
    Posts: 6,691


    I'm fine with fauxtina or building clones. It's just an artistic choice and / or a way to own an otherwise unobtainable car. I'm not fine with passing them off as the real thing, nor with passing off another's work as my own. Especially when the advertising is likely an understood part of the deal.
  2. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,279


    That is some very nice work...but don't expect people to give you credit until you are famous - its a bragging right for them more than acknowledgement for you.
    You have your pictures from the documentation of doing the work, they should now be in your portfolio and that is about all you get.
    Getting recognition at a show isn't always a good thing, there are lots of really stupid people out there that don't have a clue what they are actually seeing and will write your number down and be calling you to 'dust off' a car for them.
  3. What a douche!

    That said, not much you can do but tell everyone on the HAMB it is your work and not a found car. Mission accomplished there.

    Sounds like buddy doesn't have what it takes to build a car, (nothing wrong with that - we can't all be talented) and then needs a good story when someone asks about the car - "I know, I will say I found it this way!"

    Such a douche! :(
  4. I was putting fuel in my 59 one day and a guy came up and asked about my truck if I had built it. Let him know who I had bought it from and who had done the work. Told him the changes I had done. He then let me know that he knew the previous owner and just wondered what I would tell him.
    passed the test!
  5. It's hard enough for the Average-Joe to make a living building hot rods, and each one you put out in the public is essentially a business card to hopefully draw future customers. For the owner of the car to not give credit to the builder and then lie about it's "survivor" status is wrong.

    We all have periodic "Integrity Checks" that occur in our everyday life. Finding somebody's wallet, somebody's cel phone, opening up the newspaper machine and only taking one copy, whatever it may be. This guy failed his test, and continues to fail the more he lies.

    On the other hand, YOU have passed your Integrity Tests. You stood by your Mom when she needed you, and you delivered a quality product to a paying customer. Karma can be cruel, so let the chips fall where they may, keep living the way you are, and go to sleep each night with a clear conscience.

    There's enough folks on this site who can help spread the word about your situation. You won't need to raise your voice or even make a fist. It's handled.
  6. I had a fella ask me if I built the Pusher. I said no GM built it I just altered it. ;)
  7. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,260


    The bottom line is who cares who built a car? What difference does it make? I never ask someone who built their car. If it looks cool I may look at it. If not I walk past it. Too much drama in this thread. Monkey, sorry about your Mom. Cancer sucks.
  8. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 7,090

    from Oregon

    I'd be more concerned that he's passing it off as a "survivor" than whether you got credit for the work. Sooner or later it will change hands and you wont get credit anyway, so that part will always happen.
  9. A Boner
    Joined: Dec 25, 2004
    Posts: 6,245

    A Boner

    Post a bunch of build pic's.....if the owner gets upset, so what. He seems like a tool, and not much of a friend.
  10. Six-Shooter
    Joined: Jul 12, 2010
    Posts: 341

    from Ohio

    Nothing wrong with wanting proper recognition for a job well done. However, actually getting that is another thing. Best thing to do is to use pictures of the work you did on that car as an example of your talents. Display them on a wall in your shop or in a photo album to show potential customers. Eventually, the truth will get out and your "friend" will be exposed for what he is....a liar. Also (and more importantly) condolences to you and your family regarding the loss of your mother.
  11. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,792

    Member Emeritus

    I get asked questions about my T Bucket all the time. The most asked question is, "Did you build it?". I answer yes, BUT I tell them the body is 'glass and the frame is from Total Performance and I assembled all the parts. I tell what I made and what I bought. THAT'S the right thing to do.

    I'd be a 1st class asshole for saying I built the frame or any other part that I didn't. It's a lower form of douche that has a car built to look old and claims he found it. In my books, that's a lie of the greatest magnitude. You lie to yourself and the hobby.

    What if this car goes to auction as a "survivor"? Now do the people saying, "The new owner spent money, so he can say what he likes.", think that's right? NO! It's wrong.

    It doesn't matter if it's built by a shop or in someone garage. Taking credit for something you didn't do or lying about a cars history is WRONG.

    There is NO middle ground or certain circumstances. FRAUD is FRAUD. Everytime he told that lie, I'd be right there to call him out.
  12. second fiddle
    Joined: Jan 2, 2013
    Posts: 32

    second fiddle

    This is what I was thinking! For a bunch so dedicated to "tradition" to let this slide.......:mad: I think I wouldn't be dealing with this chap again! Once the lie is exposed, lets see how quick the OP's name is brought up as on of the fraud'sters!
  13. second fiddle
    Joined: Jan 2, 2013
    Posts: 32

    second fiddle

    I don't think it's that common of a practice, anyone with a backbone would want to give credit were credit is due, Sure I built the car, but "so n so" did the body and paint!
    Not that big of a deal!
  14. Dreddybear
    Joined: Mar 31, 2007
    Posts: 6,031



    Sad truth. Lets face it, while alot of us here on the hamb have an unexplainable passion and love for these cars, our hobby is also saturated with wannabes. These are dudes that have to have these cars to feel or act tougher than other guys. They're the one uppers, their neighbor gets a camaro, they get a vette, etc..They usually have newish Harleys as well. Then one day a vette guy sees a rat rod and thinks it's tougher-> leads to rat rod -> then one of us makes fun of it ->leads to hot rod...etc...They'll tell all their friends they built it. Every little thing on it. That's how they are. I hate those guys. They're not fun to be around.

    Agree 100%.
  15. Next time you get a chance take a walk through a Good Guys event. Or any event for that matter.

    It has been a common practice as long as I have been around. I remember when I was about 6 or 7 years old I was at a cat show in San Francisco. One of my dad's friends told me to go ask a guy about his hemi so I do and when I came back the friend of my dad said you do know the difference between a hemi and a flathead right? The guy who "built" the car didn't.

    When you see people giving credit to someone for their car it is usually a car built by someone who will give the car credibility or score points for the owner. A no name builder gains you nothing and he got paid didn't he?
  16. BISHOP
    Joined: Jul 16, 2006
    Posts: 2,571


    A real friend would give you props. Its that simple.
  17. Lowrders
    Joined: Sep 10, 2009
    Posts: 303

    from DUBUQUE IA

    I had a really similar indecent one time back when I was stupid and trying to build my business by doing things for almost nothing, just to get work that may generate more work. I did a build that took almost 11 months for not even enough money to pay for its spot in my shop. The guy had a stupid amount of money in the car and it was a verbal agreement to show the car all over the midwest when it was finished with a build sign and everything. Well, when it came to it and the car was nearing completion, we were at each other's throats pretty hard over a couple build decisions and he left with the car pretty bitter. He never got the car running right, (that wasn't part of my deal) and got frustrated and sold it. Of course he lost a pile of money, so I wasn't about to start trying to get more out of him.. The worst part about that deal is he didn't understand why I was super pissed when he sold it. I knew I should have put things in writing!
    Now that I no longer have an official business, and just do things out of my garage occasionally, I now know how to charge, I take a lot of pics, post them on the internet, and after it leaves my possession, I really could care less what happens to it.
    To sum it up, Friend to a Friend, that was super shady of him! But, I feel ya!
  18. TERPU
    Joined: Jan 2, 2004
    Posts: 2,283


    You have already won. The guys clearly lacks the skill to pull it off and you used it to get through a very intense time in your life. You clearly have a conviction and depth in your soul. That's already miles ahead of 99% of the Human race. The guys been outed on here and well a Poser is still a Poser no matter how hard he tries to hide it. Is the car cool, absolutely. I'll admire it for that. I could give a Shit who owns it, for me it is and always will be about the iron. Not how much was spent, who touched it, or where it came from. You have good taste and good skills, coupled with your conviction it should make you smile every day and giggle when thinking about this. The owner is one rung lower on the ladder for his actions but it doesn't have to affect you. Keep building cool stuff and eventually somebody takes notice.

    Take Care,

  19. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    from BC

  20. monkeywrenching
    Joined: Feb 14, 2007
    Posts: 299

    from maryland

    Catchy user name... ;)
    I look at it this way the build is a contract and it should be left as such. So unless you stated that you wanted credit for your work up front along with the price, I would be happy you got paid. Next time take a few pictures and get an album together just for your builds.
    Also look into some cards with your name on them. Don't confront him just give him a few to keep with the car to hand out . That way he knows your interested in putting your name out there. If he doesn't want to help you out at least you can drop him as a buddy. Remember you did it and not your buddy and what goes around comes around.
  21. 392
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 1,206


    Drama A lie stands on one leg truth on 2
  22. shinysideup
    Joined: Sep 1, 2008
    Posts: 1,627

    from ruskin, fl

    Sounds like the whole point of a good patina job would be to say its barn-fresh. The fact you didnt charge him appropriately and now your mad is on you.

    Why not go to the carshow and say how proud you are of your build?
  23. Nothing wrong with paying someone to build your car - being able to earn the money to do so is a skill in itself. No shame in telling people you had someone build the car. The shame is in pretending it is something it is not.
  24. blackjack,
    To be entirely honest I would be more than happy to pay someone to build a car for me if that was an option. It is hard to find someone who is not a hack that is willing to build a car to meet my expectations. Most of the really good builders around here build either high zoot cars or shock rods, then there is the financial end of it.

    I see two things wrong with the car owners story one is that it is a survivor and the other is who actually built it. it doesn't sound like the owner is taking credit for the build but for the lie about the car to work he cannot say that the actual builder of the car built it. Ya know what they say about a little white lie it takes a whole lot of big back lies to make it work.

    Personally I don't care if anyone gives me credit for what I have done. I don't try and make a living from cars nor do I want to. Once in a while I get paid for work and I am really picky about who pays me. If I work on someone's car or if consult on a build it is because I want to. If somehow in the mix I get credit or someone throws me a bone that is an added benefit.

    Granted like I said I do not make my living from cars nor do I want to.
  25. hotcoupe
    Joined: Oct 3, 2007
    Posts: 515


    sorry to hear about your mother, i looked at the car at GRNS. very convincing build, too bad about the situation with the owner.
  26. Elrod
    Joined: Aug 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,563


    I see a lot of high end builders on here writing up long build threads about cars they are building for other people. I think they are basically stamping in history that they build it.

    If this is a concern of yours for the future, just starting taking of photos of every weld you do and every bracket and post it in a project build thread. Then everyone knows that the car they are looking at is the Monkey's Wrench build from the HAMB.

    PS - Made me think of the corporate world though. You do work for a company and get paid for the work. The company takes your work and claims it as the company's work.
  27. deto
    Joined: Jun 26, 2010
    Posts: 2,621


    Boom! this is the way to go...
  28. fastrnu
    Joined: Feb 26, 2009
    Posts: 739

    from shelton,wa

    1......Recognition--- "Men die for it....Baby's cry for it."

    2......Dude is a fraud and as such WILL be exposed.

    3.....Take the compliment that you did such a good job, that this prick passed it off as original. Shows your ability. Do it again and tell the story. You work will prove it!
  29. tfeverfred
    Joined: Nov 11, 2006
    Posts: 15,792

    Member Emeritus

    That's not quite the same. Did the buyer help build the car? No. He's an outside consumer of said product. How could he claim all or part in building it, if he didn't?
  30. V4F
    Joined: Aug 8, 2008
    Posts: 4,217

    from middle ca.

    i work on cars for friends alot . i due it for the experience & for the fun . i do all for free , no hard feelings that way . i work on model "A"s because i own one & not many owners know how to work on them + not to many want to work on them . it is at my time & place . works for me & learned alot on their cars ..............

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