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Hotrod Ethics...I Have A Question Of Those Who Build

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by monkey's wrench, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,370

    c-10 simplex

    i'm still not clear what the problem is? Please describe in great detail.
  2. GassersGarage
    Joined: Jul 1, 2007
    Posts: 4,727


    A friend of mine (Groucho) built a '38 Chevy in the Gasser style. Another guy I know bought the car. He shows up at the local coffee/hang out and proceeds to tell everyone he had the car built to his own specifications. Another friend (Cal Cowboy) walks up and says, "Hey, I see you bought Groucho's car. The guy gets a look of terror and hustles Cal Cowboy away from the crowd. He snarls, "No one has seen this car!". Cal Cowboy tell him everyone on the HAMB knows this car!!!!
  3. HotrodTrash
    Joined: Sep 21, 2006
    Posts: 306

    from Hanford,ca

    Dude is telling a lie...and him knowing the truth and being part of that truth is what I'm feeling he's upset at. At least i would, shit!!! Dudes not a friend ,thats for sure and I would be telling the truth when and if people asked.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  4. Hot Rods Ta Hell
    Joined: Apr 20, 2008
    Posts: 4,432

    Hot Rods Ta Hell

    A question for Monkey's Wrench;

    Have you approached your "friend", stated your thoughts on the situation to see what he has to say about the whole deal?
  5. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755


    This is a good start. Next, if you have a website, post it up on there and show the work you did. The truth will eventually rate out the lies. Or just keep posting it on various other sites. It will find it's way back to your buddy.

    I'm not really into the made up patina thing so much just for this very reason. A job done too well just leads to fakery and false impressions. And looks like you did a great job on it, maybe too damn good.

    Sorry about the loss of your mother, and your 'friend'.
  6. Rattle Trap
    Joined: May 11, 2012
    Posts: 358

    Rattle Trap

    Liars and thieves, no difference in my book. I have dumped a few friends over the years for doing such things. Live and learn.
  7. I saw this car at the show, I didnt look at it that close. I was distracted by the 1934 Ford Fordor beside it.

    Did I see cards on them that had something to do with surviver cars and the Early Ford store ?????

    The story is very interesting.
  8. chrisp
    Joined: Jan 27, 2007
    Posts: 886


    The point here I believe is if the builder's name is on the car and people like the build they might contact him for a job, if not it's not his liar buddy who's gonna put bread on his table.
    I've been screwed like that too so now I do restauration or build posts of what I do, it's how I got employed by my actual boss, it's not an ego thing: it's how I make my familly live and do something I love instead of fliping burgers...

    By the way nice looking "survivor"
  9. Well crap, go out to the garage and work on my coupe, come back in and a lot has happened. I didn't want to post pictures mostly for steppin' on toes. If it spears a deal for him I would feel bad, old cars are his bread and butter too. Kind jacked up, and I can already hear a hundred voices saying I'm an idiot. Trying to be a better person kids now.( thus Monkey's Wrench, i call my kids monkeys, and I'm their wrench)
    As for the patina, I'm glad it did it's job. Yes, I was hoping to get work from the gig. I had talked to the owner about telling people what I'd done with the car. The only people I'd found that knew were the guys that had seen the car before...or put 2and2 together. What really pushed me over was talking with some East Coasters this past week, and hearing what they heard, then seeing the car at a show like that.
    Thank you all for your condolences. Mom's in a better place. Cancer Sucks!

    Hells Hot Rods...Know who you are, only 3 people know what bolts. Haven't moved yet. Took the past 3 weeks off remodel and was helping Rudy finish up Jersey33 for the show. June will be official relocation.

    CrazyBackyardBuilder...I painted the front fenders and hood sides on the moredoor too. It has a stock motor that had sat for 30+yrs and mechanical brakes...Bitchen old Bonnie & Clyde car
  10. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,370

    c-10 simplex

    What is the issue you are having? Please describe further.
  11. 777
    Joined: Jul 17, 2008
    Posts: 196

    from Pasadena

    Wow, great work, you should be working here in Hollywood at a studio making sets.

    If I work on a car, I take the credit for the work I do and when my friends help out or take care of me on a deal I make sure they are mentioned accordingly.

    I do lots of consultation and engineering work on hot rods and race cars that belong to friends. If they keep it for a while, drive it around and wear it out a bit, no charge. But if they burn out on the project or sell it to turn a quick profit, their used to me calling and asking a fair percentage based on the hours I have put in.
    I practice the same thing with friends that are shop owners, if we have a good give and take relationships where the check and balance seems close it isn't a big deal but every once in a while one of those guys comes along that just has to get one over on everyone. I simply charge them shop rate and keep my guard up.

    Keep up the quality work and don't be shy about taking credit for your work and we'll all know you soon enough.
  12. chevy3755
    Joined: Feb 6, 2006
    Posts: 1,046


    time to move on.............been there and done that
  13. chopolds
    Joined: Oct 22, 2001
    Posts: 6,023

    from howell, nj
    1. Kustom Painters

    I can't believe the responses here, either!
    This is one of the few things that can turn my stomach about this hobby!
    If YOU built it, YOU should get the credit. Money doesn't matter, except for the greedy ones. Dont' matter if you bought it, found it, or built it, the builder should be recognized. It all has to do with ethics, truth, and a man's reputation, and craftmanship.
    SO NOT let others take credit for your blood sweat and tears!
    I'd call this guy out. I'd let all my friends know how he's making up these stories, and they obviously should know that you did the work. Dont' let your accomplishments get lost in this guy's lies and need for attention.
    If you might be willing to,, you might even get some side work from your efforts, and respect from the community.
    Don't take it lying down.
  14. Sounds like the monetary pay was partial or at a deep discount, the other part of the pay was for the owner/friend to promote the work of his craftsman/friend.
  15. Here's where the ethical part comes in. I finished the car about 6 months ago. At a very prominent show RECENTLY, it was on display...labeled as a survivor!

    yep, he's a liar.

    What if the guy decides to sell the car and uses it's false "survivor" history to up the price? Wouldn't that be wrong?

    yep, fraud.
  16. txturbo
    Joined: Oct 23, 2009
    Posts: 1,771


    Its wrong...I would point it out every chance I got. I helped a buddy out on his 66 Impala. He wanted a TPI motor in it. He set the motor and trans in the car and bolted it up. I did all the wiring, fuel lines, custom brackets etc. Spent a lot of time on it and didn't get a dime. Now when he goes someplace with it he claims he did all the work. I just don't work on other peoples stuff anymore. All it does is take time away from my own projects and I always get screwed somehow.
  17. It seems the "double edge sword" of you creating great looking patina has fooled enough people that you should be proud! Sucks that you are not getting credit for the build. The first time is the hardest. After it happens to you several more times it gets easier to take. Trust me, I know. I can't count how many projects we have built at our shop over the years that have been "mislabeled" as the new owner's ideas/work. That is why we take as many in-progress build pics with our employees in them as we can. Good luck with this deal....Sorry to hear about your Mom.
  18. VoodooTwin
    Joined: Jul 13, 2011
    Posts: 3,455

    from Noo Yawk

    A build-board should have been discussed and agreed upon before taking on the job as part of the deal. Why assume he'd give you credit for the work? Don't assume!

    Now what you can do is put photos of your work, including this car up on your website to show potential customers what you are capable of. If your 'friend' sees it and freaks, let him. He created the lie, now he has to deal with it.
  19. He's a liar, car is killer!
  20. model.A.keith
    Joined: Mar 19, 2007
    Posts: 6,279


    saw it parked there last Oct ......................


  21. My take on the subject,I have a friend that helped me on the Ranch Wagon almost from the beginning.

    I always mention his name when I am asked questions concerning the car and give credit where credit is due!

    Dave & I did the bulk of the work,but other guys were evolved.

    Some people are egotist and if your friend insist on embellishing or shellacking the truth he ain't a friend.

    If it were me I would confront him and tell him how you feel. HRP
  22. stubbsrodandcustom
    Joined: Dec 28, 2010
    Posts: 1,668

    from Spring tx

    My personal experience...

    You got paid... he is a douche.... If he wants to be a lil bitch about it and pass the car for something its not then its his lie and the karma fairy will visit him .... just sit back at watch... But for your personal business etc Id say to put the car as some of your work and put pictures up of the work you did to make it that way...
  23. Ghost of ElMirage
    Joined: Mar 18, 2007
    Posts: 758

    Ghost of ElMirage

    WTF would someone pass off a fresh build as a survivor in the first place? I never really did understand what the hell anyone gave a shit about a car that was built at a different period in time anyway. I mean really a rod is a rod is a rod whether it's 1953 or 2013. Not a fan of fake patina either. However the guy is still a douche and sorry about your mom.
  24. GregCon
    Joined: Jun 18, 2012
    Posts: 689

    from Houston

    Actually, you're both kinda screwy.

    1) He shouldn't lie about the car being 'old'.
    2) Unless it was part of your agreement, he doesn't owe you any 'credit' for having done the work.
    3) You're kinda lame making a car with fake patina anyway - isn't that a sort of lie, too?
  25. the-rodster
    Joined: Jul 2, 2003
    Posts: 6,878


    Read my tagline....

  26. stude_trucks
    Joined: Sep 13, 2007
    Posts: 4,755


    Have to admit, that's a pretty damn convincing fake, dust and all. But then the lame scarecrow gives it away. Nobody with a true survivor that cool would do something as dumb as that.

    Darn shame it is faux because it does look like a killer car and a hell of a good job pulling it off. That car would be killer done up clean and fresh too and probably would have been easier work.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  27. Moe
    Joined: Dec 2, 2003
    Posts: 197


    Well said chopolds... I have build several cars though out the years... To never be mentioned in magazine articles, in show displays or on the web. Your story is very common in all levels of the car world...From the drive-in to GNRS
    Document all work ... Take Photos!!!
    Remember ... There are craftsmen who's workmanship has built other men's reputations.

    A point of view that sum believe ... If they paid for it, they built it... These men view the workmanship of others as the product of there own mental might.

    They are often easly identified by there comments and airs of expertise.
    You don't want them as customers !!!!!

    Quality work and integrity last much longer than hype.
    NEVER do work for advertisement... You will be advertising for more users!

    Sorry dude... Been there done that... Know how you feel
  28. I probably shouldn't say this, but if I understand the story correctly, the car was built not found as displayed at the show. I think I would mention to my "friend" that the car is not a survivor it is a built car. That is probably the unethical part in my mind.

    As far as credit it is common for people to say that they built a car, when in fact they paid someone else to build the car. Is it right to do that? Well not in the strictest sense, but it is an accepted practice.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  29. 40FORDPU
    Joined: Mar 15, 2009
    Posts: 3,335

    from Yelm, Wa
    1. Northwest HAMBers

    He owes/owed you for services rendered..apparently he fulfilled that obligation.
    Beyond that, it is his to do with, what he will..including embellishing on a story about the history of the car.
    His conscious allows him to lie, with no remorse.
    Sadly in this day, a man's word/integrity aren't high on the moral code.
  30. ...that guy is no friend.

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