Hot Rods Hot Rod Tig Welders?

So true. I was working a TVA job several years ago in Kingston Tennessee.
There was a T.V.A. inter company news letter in our office. The company was
commenting on how many technical oriented hands on people they would be short in 10 years which is about now. It was so bad they were contemplating
raising the retirement age to try and keep badly needed people in the work
force. I am now retired. 3 yrs. I saw first hand the difficulties recruiting
young people to enter the trades. Trying to get Ironworkers apprentices
was really tuff. Guys dont want to work hot, hard or dirty. Enter working
at extreme heights and they ran like deer! All the trades were and are having
similar problems. The hard facts are that even in hands on mechanical
trades there is a requirement for a high level of technical ability as well
as the willingness and desire to get after it. Not everybody can work in an office all day!

 

Problem solving and being able to visualize the end product is getting to be a lost art. If they can't see it on an app or autocad they are befuddled.

 

My experience is kids are generally motivated to learn to work at 10-14 years of age when they first want to buy something important to them, and our current legal and social situation won't allow them to get a job until they're 18 after killing time in front of the TV or playing computer games. Fortunate are kids under 18 today who have opportunities to work and make and manage their own money. Combine that with the failure of our public education today to offer the great vocational classes I enjoyed in HS - metal shop gone, auto shop gone, electronics shop gone, wood shop barely hanging on - no wonder its hard to find good employees.

 

It isn't just kids that don't want to work. Wish that was the case, but it's not.
I've been calling and emailing various guys around my area to do pinstriping and lettering on my '39 Chev project the last couple months and I either get no response, or one contact with them and then no follow up afterwards. Seems that none of them want the work, even though we never got to the point of discussing prices. They're all either not interested, or just lazy and don't follow through.
I finally went to a sign company I've used before and they were extremely happy to do the work, and not only responded, but had mockups sent to me the next day, and a day after that they made up all the stencils so I could do the lettering myself. They actually were grateful for the opportunity, and great customer service!

 

I opened my own welding shop when I was 38, in 1994. I officially retired at the end of 2018, but worked another year during the mornings because I had a lot of customers I only saw a few times a year, pretty much closing completely at the end of 2019.

During my years in business, I never had hired help, I did everything in house, by myself. It was a tough way to earn a living, but I think I did OK. It never was my intention to make a pile of money, I wanted to pay the bills and live a comfortable life, which I did.

My last 10 or so years in business, I was pretty much the only welding shop in town that did stuff on cars, or did any small jobs. The last 3-4 years before retirement, it was pretty tough to earn a living, our area has been economically challenged for many years.

Even though I've been retired for 2 full years, I still get calls from people wanting me to do welding jobs for them, but most of those jobs are to cobble something together so they don't have to buy something, and they want it done cheap.

As far as I know, there is still no one that does what I used to do in this area, and frankly it would surprise me if anyone will. There are several production welding shops in this area, and all of them are looking for welders. They are offering a starting wage of nearly 1/2 of what my shop rate was and still can't get and keep help, most have a pretty high turnover rate. From what I've seen, many guys that claim to be welders are not. The local companies have no interest in training anyone, all they want is experienced welders that can walk in the door and do the job.
The local community college had a welding class, but they closed it down, not enough people entering it to support having the class.

Do you see the problem here? With no schooling available and no company apprenticeship programs available, and all the current jobs requiring walk in and weld experience with some sort of certs, how is someone interested in welding suppose to get into it? When I started out, you took a night class and got a job where they gave you a chance to gain experience. After a few years of learning and gaining experience, you got enough in wages to make a pretty good living, or if you wanted to run your own business, you bought a welder and started welding. After a couple years, if you were any good, you could make a living doing odd jobs. That isn't what it looks like anymore. Gene

 

The silver tsunami is what it is being referred to around here. A very real problem with no quick solution in sight. As skilled tradesman retire, the pool to replace them is getting smaller. For the few still willing to learn a trade, the future is bright.
B

 

I do have a different view, but I gotta say that I think you are giving too much credit to teachers instead of taking a bow yourself. You obviously set a good example and placed enough importance on education and work ethic, and YOU were the major influence. You are right, bad parenting hampers children's learning, motivation and possible future goals and successes, but it's to be expected from some of these parents that haven't progressed beyond childhood themselves (and shouldn't be allowed to procreate). Teachers do get saddled with inferior raw materials, but on the other hand, they fight the battle for 30 years and then get to feed at the taxpayer's trough. Most of us on here work until 62, 65 or 70 because we don't have that big soft pillow to fall back on.

 

Crap for $30 hr to learn to weld better, I might want to do that after I'm done here. I want to learn as much as I can about welding/machining/fabricating, problem is I'm a hermit and don't know anyone. If I want to learn I have to buy the equipment myself and practice.....so it's slow going.

Sadly college used to not be for everyone, but now everyone goes. If everyone is special, then no one is....a bachelors now is kinda like a h.s diploma. It's fine if that's what you want to do, but the benchmark is getting higher and higher.

On the positive side, when the shortage hits critical mass the one's who do want to work will be rewarded .

 

The majority of Tradesmen aren’t tradesmen as per the older days.
When we have a welder come in for an interview, I’ll set the machine up with nothing set and the gas reg at zero,if they can’t make all the adjustments and settings to do the job required,,sorry, not needed.
Most blokes can glue something together with a mig say, but setting things up to varying jobs and materials to a proper standard is where the loot is deserved.
Same problem in other trades down here also, tradies shirts are cheap, they don’t come with the knowledge needed though. The latest here is to lower the hours required to complete their time to call them tradesmen sooner, to fill the trades shortages, good luck to the future employers! Not to mention the customers paying for the work.
Likes been said though, the OP needs a retired good tradie who wants extra retirement loot, or a younger top tradie looking for extra loot to help raise his family, I hope you can find someone.

 

Well I can say it started in the 80's when school guidance councilors and most public school teachers pushed kids away from trades pounding in the idea that they had to go to college or they were a nobody. A good friend of mine was a journeyman carpenter in Seattle and now is retired but keeps in close touch with the union hall. A while back he said they were short something like 150 journeymen carpenters on one particular day.

On the Tig welder, it may not be productive but Columbia Basin College in Pasco WA trains the welders that do the welding at Hanford Atomic works. They give some of the best instruction in the country.
Welding Technology (columbiabasin.edu)

My doof ex brother in law is a mechanic and a damned good one as goofy as he is and 15 years ago he was making 80K a year twisting wrenches at a Pep boys on commission while college grad customers who worked in cubicles for 40 K a year looked down their noses at him. The man's tool box cost more than most of their cars did.

My son started out in the local beef slaughter house as the lube guy greasing the equipment about 18 years ago after his buddy talked him into going to work there, His buddy who is now a pipeline welder in Alaska taught him to weld with my welder so he could get an advancement, he learned more and advanced more until now he is one of the maintenance supervisors in the plant. I don't even know what his title is but over the years he has learned more skills and advanced.

 

When most of us old geezers started work or a trade we saw that as the job we would have for life. Even if it wasn't the ideal job you stuck at it to feed the family and pay the bills. Nowadays the young ones laugh at those ideals because they know they will have multiple jobs in their lifetime.

 

I am 39 I have been a welder/fabricator for 18 years and have been at the same job for 15 years (18 pay rises) . I see the same thing the "young guys" don't want to work they think they should get the same rate of pay top level guys in the shop.

They have no interest in anything automotive, motorcycle, or machinal, but I have laugh many guys who are complaining that our hobby (I view it as a way of life!) is dying and these kids are lazy made no effort to their children interested cars or teach them any machinal skills.

My mother and father took me to my first weekly dirt short track when I was three mouths old! They took me to Fonda speedway every Saturday night for the stock car races from 1987-1990. I had to stay in the grandstands with my mom while dad was in the pits working.

They always took me to swapmeets and car shows, dad had me in the garage with him when he was working.

My first memory is of him adjusting the valves on he 390 in his 72 F-100 Ranger. I was a toddler, he was sitting on the inner fender and I wanted to see what he was doing. I stood on the milk crate he had used to climb under the hood, I still couldn't see so I climbed on the bumper garbed the radiator support stood still couldn't see so I started to use the grill as a ladder, when he saw what I was doing he picked me up put me on his lap and went back to work.
Looking back I don't know how he was able to run the valves with me on his lap.

So many of the guys my dad's age left the wife and kids at home when they went to shows or swapmeets and chased their children out of the garage, and are now asking "Why don't my kids have any interest in old cars, racing, or hot rods"

 

I have worked in all the metal trades over the years (sheet metal, machining, welding) and many of the companies that I worked for had no real appreciation for my skillsets. I remember one manager (our so-called Director of Manufacturing) complaining about how I was "adding to the process" while prepping some pieces that I had to solder together. Finally I asked her if she could solder, braze, weld or machine a part, and she said no. "Then what qualifies you to tell me how to do my job?" I asked. That didn't go over well, but I got my point across. This same company often hired people from a temp agency so they wouldn't have to pay benefits, many of whom were practically worthless. We had people with no math skills, clueless on basic hand tool useage, and zero aptitude for the job, but we were expected to train them. This was an exercise in futility, as many of them didn't last long, and would be replaced with another one to train.

 

gotcha.

 

Getting some training in welding and going to work is just the first
step. It will get you in the door but it takes a strong desire and many long
hours of application to become a really skilled craftsman at metal work.
I worked as an Ironworker for a couple of years before joining Local 58
Ironworkers in New Orleans. I was offered to go work on permit which
lets you draw journeyman wages... if you can produce. Upon advice of a
veteran Ironworker I opted for an apprenticeship entry agenda. Man I
thought I knew things about steel work. NOT. The hands on education I
received for the next 48 years was amazing! I learned so much from so
many different guys it was great! The last couple of years I worked
I was still learning a whole new aspect of processing spent nuclear fuel
rods in sealed casks and then transporting the 500,000 lbs. casks to a
storage site a half mile away. Learning valuable skills never stops if a
person will accept the opportunities.

 

Which brings us to another sad fact, seems like a lot of companies now hire people with a degree (not in the field) to manage others without knowing what the people they manage actually do or how to do it themselves. The big degree to shoot for at my work is a bachelors in business administration if you want to become a manager of any department, even if you have no background in that field. Working knowledge is a thing of the past as long as you can push time management (without knowing any steps in the process).
But I digress....

 

You might digress, but oh so true.

 

My grandson went to a big trade school back in the Midwest somewhere to learn nothing but welding. I think he spent a year or more there, and when he had passed all his certifications he came back to Washington and immediately was hired at almost $40 an hr. Then within a year he was asked to teach evenings at the local community college, and is doing that too.
His formal training in welding has opened up all sorts of job opportunities as he said the vast majority of guys he runs into are trained on the job to do one specific type of welding, and really don't know welding in general. I think any young person seeking to make a career working with their hands should consider a trade school that will guarantee they'll be certified in a number of welding methods. There's a huge shortage of skilled welders, so you will likely make a great living if properly trained and certified.

 

I think that's why we see so many struggling and failing companies and industries. The emphasis is on the bottom line, with management thinking that the 'degreed' employee is the way to get there. These dumbasses don't know (or care) the first thing about the process or product, but they have a degree and think the same skill sets applies to building rockets as it does to making ballpoint pens.

 

Although I am an Ironworker by trade we have close affiliations with
most all the construction trades. One of the most outstanding learing
opportunities is with the Pipefitters program. Their apprentice school
is a 5 year term. They start a welding program the first year that continues
for the duration. Also is taught is medical gas, which is the piping of gases
in hospitals and other various medical facilities. They teach all aspects
of plumbing both residential and commercial. They teach industrial chemical
plant piping. Also a big part of the program is HYVAC. Installation as well
as operations of HYVAC in large buildings. A person that successfully completes the 5 year program has qualifications that will serve him or
her very well in the course of their working life. I often encourage young
people to look into such trainings. All the while an apprentice is in the
program they are also working at well paying jobs where his newly learned
skills are being applied and honed. Such an education would cost thousands of dollars if one could even be found. Still young people bitch because they have to attend training on their own time in the evenings and some Saturdays. All of the various trades have similar programs. In
recent years the training programs are being greatly updated and include
a much more technical aspect to the application of the new technology.

 

One thing I do miss a great deal is all the pieces of scrap metal that was
often left over and given away freely by contractors after it was deemed not needed. I still have a bits of square tubing, angles, channel as well as sheet
metal. It was cheaper for the contractors to give to the people that worked with them as opposed to having to transport and store much small pieces.
Also fasteners were often in abundance after a project was completed.
Now my supplies are running thin and I have been buying a few items
at considerable sticker shock.

 

I remember one of my sons friends took a break from college to spend some time in a trades program in carpentry that he took an interest in. His parents weren't too pleased, but I talked them into letting him do it. He did finish college, but now he also has a trade skill to fall back on, and he puts it to good use!

I can remember my parents worried about me because I was always taking shop classes in high school, then I went into the Air Force to get into metal working. Ironically enough, I ended up with a couple of degrees in Manufacturing Technology and Architectural Engineering and Design (paid for by a couple of employers who offered tuition reimbursement programs) that also serve me well. But it's the trade skills I have learned over the years that give me the greatest satisfaction.

 

I live in a county where a majority of the parents would rather have there kid behind a desk with a diploma on the wall making 40K than working in a trade making twice that.
The two basic talents (an analytical mind and good manual dexterity) that are needed to be a skilled tradesman will also take you far in any number of fields that won't tear up your body.
It is a shame shop classes are disappearing. Being an Industrial Arts or P.E. major was what helped a lot of guys graduate. One of the reasons they are disappearing is cost. A shop teacher only handles about half the number of students that an academic teacher does. Then you have to look at the square footage needed and the expensive equipment that needs constant updating. Case in point, last year, before I retired from the college, we were going to get a new front end machine (sans rack) for about 30K. Covid blew that deal up. Flush with Covid money, they are now getting two new machines complete with ADAS add-ons and one new rack. My guess, somewhere north of 100K.
At the college we run several apprenticeship programs in conjunction with the unions. One evening I was upstairs when their classes let out. They were heavily immigrant and I thought to myself, "There are the parents of our next generation of students."

 

There is no shortage of people who want to work, and technology is a thing.

There is a shortage of jobs that pay competitive wages. I am not sure where you guys live, or when, but $30 or $40/hr. is not considered "good money" in 2021.

Would you TIG weld all day for $30 or even $50/hr (in many cases with no benefits), if you could make $85 to $150/hr pushing buttons? All that with getting to choose where to live, because the work can be done remotely. Yes, there are people that work for my company, with a diploma, and 5-years of experience, making over $300k (which equates to $144.23/hr), and can live in Boise Idaho, if they want to, with a fully-paid benefits plan.

Nobody with a viable diploma is making $40k, unless they work for a small, community based non-profit, in a small metro area. In-N-Out Burger managers in metro areas im my state can make up to $160k. Floor associates make $36k, and have good benefits. You just need to bathe, and show up on-time.

Please stop yelling at clouds, and blaming the young for choosing to have better than what you think they should accept. It is not 1991. Nobody wants to work for 1991 wages.

Should it be this way, probably not. Saying "sure, it's hot, dirty, difficult, and dangerous work, but it pays half what other safe jobs do", and expecting there to be a stampede of applicants is just plain silly.

 

Now can we go back to arguing about what is who's tradition is traditional enough to be considered to be the one true tradition?

 

Gimpy: Things are much different pay wise here in the midwest than they are in your state because living costs are much less. My wife taught Spanish for almost 40 years and was barely making 50K + benefits when she retired a few years ago. Most technical industrial jobs in this are are covered by 20-25 an hour with fab shop jobs coming in under 20 per hr. Local pivot manufacturer goes begging at 30 an hr. Also there's always a housing shortage, but still houses don't bring the kind of money they do in CA. I have a friend who teaches Auto Body at a community college but his classes go unfilled. A competent young body tech can start out at 80K a year but those jobs go unfilled. Much of the current employee pool doesn't understand the phrase (Work Your Way To The Top) they want to start out at the top.

 

I get what you are saying, but I am not sure you got what I was saying.

For a direct example, a 30-year-old, with one 4-year CS degree, and 5-years of experience at my company makes upwards of $300k.

He can buy the house next door to yours, at over asking price, and work, at that pay, from there, at your cost-of-living.

We even have people that we interviewed over video, who we have never seen in-person, and nobody cares where they live. Three of the guys on my immediate team live in Taiwan, one is in Kentucky, and two more are in Michigan.

 

My dad was tickled when I chose to spend most of my time in shop classes instead of playing sports like my older brother and younger brother did. And when I won awards for various shop work I did in high school he was as proud or prouder than he was about letterman's jackets, and letters in sports.
I just never cared much about organized sports, and still don't. From the time I was very small I always preferred to be building things, vs. playing sports. Somehow all my kids love sports, and not sure where they got that from; not me!

 

some of what has been written is true. Getting people to work in trade jobs is harder today than 10 years ago. I had young guys after a few months think they should have my job as a master electrician that took me a lifetime learning. But I still found those diamonds and 2 of them now own their own business. And yesI got tired of being hot and dirty and worn out at the end of the day and knew it was time to let my employees take over the company

 

As a retired teacher some of the ideas people have about the responsibilities teachers have are il-informed. Arriving at school at 7:30 and start teaching at 9:00, supervision,"ending" at 3:00, after school "tune-up" sessions with students that want to improve. Leave for home around 5:00, have dinner, and then start on the mountain of marking that has to be done, prep for the next day, make up a quiz or test, and on it went. So we got summers off, so what. I use to tell my students that in July I went to the psychiatrist three days a week to get over them and in August I went three days a week to get ready for the next batch.

If someone improves their credentials through education or experience should they not get a pay raise as their value to the employer went up?

My wife is a retired teacher and my daughter is teaching, extra difficult in these Covid times. My wife referred to teaching as a birthday party for 28 kids that lasted six hours! Try doing that if you want a tiny taste. A number of years back there was an article which humourously said teachers were paid too much and should get the $3.00 per hour for baby sitting. (Well $3.00 X 28 X 6 = $504 per day. $2,520 per week, $10,080 per month. $100,800 for ten months work, no pay for the summer. Of course any education imparted would be free of payment!) They also suggested that if the teacher had a Masters they should get $6.00 per hour. Hell, I never ever got close to making that kind of money.

However, I did influence thousands of students and I'm sure they have all found their way. Name me one person who is a "self made man" without the benefit of a teacher!

My son has certification in Mechanical and Robotic engineering. Won an innovation award to boot. No a lot of well paying jobs for that around here. Now back at BCIT getting a Red Seal in machining. Had a bad experience on his level one final exam and dropped his average down to 97.5% and in the internship was making $18.00 and hour and they had him basically loading parts. And that was at one of the top shops around here.

The Lower Mainland is a very expensive place to live and I guess our trades compensation hasn't caught up. However, my son is a hell of a Tig welder and if I want some marching done he'll do it in the basement shop...