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Technical Hop up mods for 1928 Hudson Super Six?

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by kiwijeff, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Has anyone ever hot rodded one of these engines? What mods can be done? Thanks, Jeff.
     

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    Wurger likes this.
  2. Well unless I am mistaken it already has a cross flow head, maybe a little pocket porting wouldn't hurt it a bit. Myght be able to find a different camshaft for it if you scrounge around or don't mind shelling out bucks to have yours reground. A multi carb intake shouldn't be a problem and you can no doubt get pistons for it albiet not off the shelf.
     
  3. BIGNICK46733
    Joined: Feb 21, 2010
    Posts: 14

    BIGNICK46733
    Member

    Walt's garage in san francisco, ca. Walt mordenti, 45 skyviewway, 415-824-5222. All he ever worked on is hudson. He's in his late 80's and works on 'em everyday.
     
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  4. Thanks guys. Porknbeaner, i was thinking of a homemade intake with triple carbs. I can get pistons from Egge. Maybe they have cams too. I have seen a crank mounted blower on one. Big Nick, great contact. I will check time diff, and call him.
     
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  5. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,212

    mtkawboy
    Member

    Babbit bearings ??? Dont waste your time unless you change that and go to full pressure lubrication. How about a 50s twin H hornet engine ?
     
  6. Mtkawboy, good point. You can get shell bearings for them. Im just window shopping for info at present. Not sure wether to throw money at it, or how much. Id love a twin H power 50s engine, but there may not be to many down this end of the planet. I also have a spare 29 Super Six engine i can use better sump from. I will be meeting our local Hudson guru soon, but hes in his 70s, and dont like hot rods. Hes seen my 29 truck, (avatar) in pics, and didnt say much. Reason for wanting to use 28 engine, is they are huge, and im looking at doing a period speedster.
     
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  7. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Hudson Super Six was one of the hottest performing cars of the time. Hudson made boat tail speedsters with that engine.

    What do you hope to gain by hopping up an 84 year old engine? It can be done as part of a rebuild. The usual tricks like a reground cam, bigger carb, dual exhaust, lightened flywheel and so on will work. My concern would be over stressing such an old engine with babbitt bearings.

    I know you guys do some wild things with very old engines down under. Maybe you can find someone in the local antique car club who has experience with such a project. I think it would be fun but if it was my car I would be working on keeping the body simple and light, and the engine stock or close to it and be happy with whatever speed it happened to have.

    Later..........

    Maybe this guy can help, video showing a Hudson Super Six speedster.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YZ914o1AJA
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
    kiwijeff likes this.
  8. Thanks Rusty, good advise. I have not been around Hudsons long, (June last year when i got the 29), but i learn fast. I have John Conde's book, The Cars That Hudson Built, so im familar with the diffrent speedsters they built, or Speedabouts as the factory called them. Thanks for the vid link. The 33 Special in pic is the look id like to go with. It wouldnt be an exact copy, but you get the idea. Just need hubs and wire wheels. Got almost everything else.
     

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  9. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,858

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I don't see a cross flow head here. And it looks like the intake is a single port into a cast in log. If so a three carb intake is going to be a project. Cool looking engine.
     
  10. Dale Fairfax
    Joined: Jan 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,585

    Dale Fairfax
    Member Emeritus

    That's an "F" head-intake in the head/exhaust in the block. That's as close as Hudson ever got to overhead valves until 1955. That two seat Indy car in the thumbnail is a straight eight.
     
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  11. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Just to clarify... if it was me I would build the speedster with a stock engine, try it out, if it was too slow think about hopping up the engine.

    The Super Six was one of the hot performers of the day. Top speed with a light weight body should be 75 - 80 MPH.

    I suspect you will find that plenty, in an open car, on wooden wheels and 3 1/2" wide tires with mechanical brakes.

    If not it will respond to the usual hop up tricks. But try it in stock form first, work all the bugs out, then figure out what you want to do.
     
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  12. Rich took a second look and I have mistaken what is probably water for exhaust.
     
  13. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 7,592

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    At least you won't have to go looking for an aluminum valve cover for it.
     
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  14. After the great replies here, i see that hopping it up would be mostly a waste of cash. Id still like a hot rod touch, like maybe twin carbs, and headers. Mainly for my visual entertainment. Lol. I see no one noticed id turned the inlet for downdraft, as these are updraft. Heathen, i have 4 spare rocker covers. The only things i need for my plan, are wire wheels, rear springs, radiator and the panel steel for body. I plan on making a wooden buck, bending the steel myself, then getting my panelbeater mate from down the road, to help me do swaging and button it up. Thanks again for helping me decide what to do with this awesome engine.
     
  15. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    To put this in perspective, the 288 cu in Super Six was a 92HP engine. The most powerful car in America in 1928 was the Chrysler Imperial 80, 309 cu in, 112HP six. This was with the optional high compression head, standard was 100HP.

    The celebrated V8 Ford flathead did not surpass the 1928 Hudson for a generation.In 1948 they got an increase from 90 to 95HP.

    So, in speedster form, you would be looking at performance similar to a hot rod roadster with a stock 48 Ford V8. In other words you won't be holding up traffic, even with a stock engine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    In England in the twenties it was the thing to build "specials" and use them on the road. They often featured a single large exhaust pipe down the side of the car, made of copper pipe. No muffler. The copper pipe was supposed to give a mellow tone to the exhaust, a sweeter sound than a steel or iron pipe.

    Another period touch would be 2 updraft carburetors and a magneto ignition. I knew a very old man who built a hot rod Model T in the twenties, it had a Rayfield racing carburetor and a Bosch magneto. The magneto came off a 1913 Cadillac. He bolted it to the frame and made up a home made chain drive using bicycle chain and sprockets.
     
  17. Rusty, thats awesome stuff. More HP than a stock V8 works for me. Im into the copper exhaust, its something i had no idea about, and would look great with all the copper work on the engine. As to the carb, i dont have anything yet, as it didnt come with the original updraft Marvel. These are prone to the pot metal breaking down over time, so i figure id run something more modern. A little research is required to see what will work best. Triple or twin carbs would look cool, but i could live with a single. Less complicated, the kiss theory is proberbly best here. Thanks.
     
  18. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,767

    fleet-master
    Member

    Hey!! if Bert can go 183 on B'ville with a '28 motor....well....:D:D

    Streamlining mate,streamlining...;)
     
  19. Fleetmaster, 28 was a good year for engines it would seem... If u were closer, id get you to help with the bodywork. Ive read a few threads here on making a body, and wooden buck. Looks easy enough... Famous last words? Well see, but im confident i can do it. Your works great, and ill be using steel, but i know alloy would be lighter. Either way, there wont be much wieght in it, and the Super Six should b a fun powerplant.
     
  20. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I've been looking at some speedster builds on the net. One of the cleverest, and easiest, copied the fabric covered Weymann sedan bodies of the twenties. Also seen on some open LeMans Bentleys of the twenties.

    In this case the builder made the framework of his boat tail speedster body out of angle iron and conduit tubing. Cut down sides, no doors. When the framework was finished he welded on strips of the expanded metal mesh used by plasterers. Covered the whole thing with cotton padding, muslin, and vinyl top material. Very simple, cheap, strong and light weight. You don't even need to paint it.

    Riley saloons had roofs made this way in the early fifties.
     
  21. Wow, thats an interesting idea for the body Rusty. I will look into it some more. Bean out in shed measuring up stuff. May have some rear springs coming from the fella who i got Hudson from. Also getting front spring u bolts that ive just had made up, dropped off shortly.
     
  22. jeff you could make the body like they did Tiger Moths, fabric and dope to tighten it all
     
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  23. Just wanted to throw up a pic of Mo, with my 29 and his 28 that he sold to me. He spent 38 years collecting parts for his 28 Hudson Sport Coupe. He never got the body done, and it only came with a cowl. Hes 70, and ive turned him into a hot rodder. Lol.
     

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  24. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

  25. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,222

    oj
    Member

    A good buddy has this one
     

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  26. I'd pay some serious attention to the lubrication system. I'm not familiar with Hudsons, but engines from that era typically need some help if you're gonna run the revs up. Increased pressure and flow, inserts and cross-drilled crank should help. Porting will probably be of limited benefit because of the low rev range. Same with cam. I'd stick with increasing the compression and twin carbs. They will be bang for the buck. A lightened flywheel will make it more responsive, and I'd look at a better transmission. They were typically very slow shifting and cumbersome in the 20s. I'll bet an F150 84-87 floorshift trans with overdrive would be of more benefit than any modifications.
     
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  27. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,999

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    2012 Great Race check in at Barrie Ontario. See some Speedsters in action. Note that the Hudson Super Six is one of the most popular speedsters, second only to Ford in numbers. A good testimony to the performance and stamina of Hudsons that are nearly 100 years old.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L3MY0mclfE

    If you are not familiar with it, The Great Race is an annual rally for vintage vehicles.

    "the Great Race revival continued with a 2012 event venturing around the Great Lakes. Teams assembled in Traverse City, MI for the start of a 9-day 2,400 mile adventure that took them north in Canada. Traveling clockwise around the Great Lakes, the course wound its way through the Algonquin Provincial Park and down into New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio before finishing in Dearborn, MI at the Henry Ford Museum. 2012 threw a twist into the typical Great Race formula and provided racers a welcome change of scenery as well as refreshing summertime rallying weather conditions."

    If you can get hold of any of the Great Race Hudson Speedster owners they should be able to tell you how to make your Hudson live and perform on modern highways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  28. fleet-master
    Joined: Sep 29, 2010
    Posts: 1,767

    fleet-master
    Member

    keep in mind the harsh UV could poss be hard on a fabric body down here Jeff...im just thinkin ,vinyl roofs last not toooo bad here but usually only if they're garaged and treated with protectants i reckon. Do you have a salt air atmosphere where you are?
     
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  29. K1w1, dope as in hemp? Rusty, ill check link when i get back home. At supermarket. Lol. Bassman, thanks, ive been reading about updating lube system, and better G box may be a good idea. U bolts dropped off and installed.
     
  30. OJ, what year is the engine? Fleetmaster, i live right next to the beach, so salt air could be a problem. We have not seen rain for some time which is strange for here, but its sure making for a great end to our summer.
     

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