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Hot Rods Homeless Flathead Ford engine ID

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Hemi Joel, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    A relative texted me these pictures. This flathead Ford is soon becoming homeless due to foreclosure. He wants to know if I want to buy it or know anybody who does. Can anybody identify exactly what it is, and how much it is worth? He knows nothing about it. It was in the shed in the backyard. There is no equipment there to lift it into a truck. Any ideas on how to get it into the back of a pickup without having to drag a cherry picker over there?
    Thanks, Joel 5132.jpeg 5213.jpeg 5100.jpeg
     
  2. Chappy444
    Joined: Jan 27, 2012
    Posts: 342

    Chappy444
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    1. Maryland HAMBers

    looks like an early ford flathead...are there any numbers on the block or heads you can share with us?

    as for moving it. it looks to be on a wheeled cart. lay 2 sheets of thick plywood down and roll it to where the truck is. (leap frog the plywood) rent a cheery picker and lift the lump into the truck.

    being stored without the spark plugs would be a possible cause for concern...

    good luck.
     
  3. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,054

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    According to the front pulley, fan, and sideshift trans, I'd say it was in a 42-48 Ford/Merc. There's no guarantee the block is from that car, but it would be similar year. If it is not stuck (take along a BIG crescent wrench to turn the crank bolt) it should be worth $150. If froze, it's still worth $75 for parts.

    As for getting it into a truck, take an eight foot thick walled tube and some chain. Sling the chain around the tube a couple times and attach the ends to some bolts on the engine. Get four friends to help carry it to the truck.
     
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  4. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,054

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Actually, that distributor is probably a 41. Engine could be 41 as well.
     
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  5. Look guys it is a 21 stud. !!! Way earlier than 41. oops, sorry that one pic looked like a 21 stud.I went back to a better pic.
     
  6. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 3,492

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    those moving straps they sell at uhaul will lift it.
    upload_2018-4-16_12-37-0.png
    I have used them for Juke boxes, coke machines and blocks.
     
  7. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    He didn't get any numbers off it. I'm going to call him and see what I can find out.
     
  8. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 288

    rusty valley
    Member

    looks like a post war motor with a prewar fan on the genny, like in a jalopy at one time. i agree, the plugs being out is a bad sign, stuck good i would imagine living in this godawful swamp. seems like i've seen it on craigslist?
     
  9. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Well, the homeless flathead now has a home... in my garage. They couldn't find anyone to buy it, so he called me and said to come and get it if I wanted it free. I bought a couple planks and ramp ends and used them for ramps and winched into the back of my pickup.
    It says H7 41 on the bell housing and 81A-6050 on the passenger side head.
     
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  10. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

  11. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 745

    Boneyard51
    Member

    Where there’s a will, there’s a way! Glad you got it! Bones
     
  12. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 4,198

    BJR
    Member
    from Minnesota

    So does it turn over?
     
  13. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    I haven't tried to turn it over yet. They needed it gone today, so I had to run over there in the middle of my work day, then come back to work. Not home yet.
     
  14. Boneyard51
    Joined: Dec 10, 2017
    Posts: 745

    Boneyard51
    Member

    The crankshaft nut is made for a hand crank, may help establish the year. Bones
     
  15. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,335

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    Well, the 81A heads cover a number of year applications past 1938. The particular setup around the hand crank nut makes this one, though a '39-up for several years long crank engine and not a '38 short crank 24 stud.
    A shot of side of block and another shot of top focusing on area between manifold and head will tell more.
    And make one of top of bellhousing and back of block, AND of the serial # on front top of trans just in case it is the original one for that engine.
     
  16. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,296

    wheeldog57
    Member

  17. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,335

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    It is indeed leaning that way! More crap that is datable: shoot the Model # on carb, on the driver's side of the bowl.
    Distributor is '37-41, but a marking on rear end of its shaft can distinguish a '42 distributor from a '37-40.
     
  18. rusty valley
    Joined: Oct 25, 2014
    Posts: 288

    rusty valley
    Member

    it is so much fun to listen to bruce again! thanks
     
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  19. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    thanks for all the comments!
    I tried to turn it tonight with a pipe wrench, it's stuck. It is sitting on a little cart, it's not too stable, so I couldn't try too hard. I looked into the spark plug holes with a borescope. It wouldn't make the corner to get down into the bores, but what I could see on the top of the block was not rusty. I mixed up a solution of xylol and atf and poured it into each spark plug hole and down the carburetor. I"ll let it sit for a couple of weeks and then try turning it again.

    Pictures requested by Bruce:

    IMG_20180419_213606391.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
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  20. Hemi Joel
    Joined: May 4, 2007
    Posts: 479

    Hemi Joel
    Member
    from Minnesota

    Here is the carb. IMG_20180419_220853054.jpg
     
  21. Mac VP
    Joined: May 13, 2014
    Posts: 234

    Mac VP
    Member

    Bruce is probably right about the 1939 guess. The Standard 1939 Ford is my guess based on the front crankshaft pulley plus the other visual cues. If so, the generator is pretty desirable....appears to be the 2 brush type (works with a conventional voltage regulator) which had the tapered roller bearing in the front to support the pulley mounted fan blade.

    Lots of things could be swapped around so you’ll want to get it more apart to verify things. Look for the two small bumps on the lower sides of the block at the oil pan rail. Also, the carb is the 1942 version but any of the 39-48 carbs can be swapped so that’s not a confirmation of anything.
     
  22. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,054

    alchemy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    According to Mac's serial number page ( http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_serialnumbers.htm ) the trans is a 1947 Ford/Merc. Must not be original to the engine.

    I don't see any bulges in the block at the pan rail, so that helps with the 1941 and up diagnosis. The lack of a "59" on the bellhousing makes it pre-war.
     
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  23. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 2,981

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    It's got paint on it; it's a good one ;)

    Not surprised it's stuck with no plugs in the heads. They seem to do better when left buttoned up from what I've seen. I bet your xylol and atf mix or some mystery oil will get it going. Whatever corrosion inside is probably just from condensation and not being left in the woodpile for decades type stuff.

    The late transmission makes for a fun speculative puzzle. Was it a late transmission in an early car or did someone just drop whatever engine they could get their hands on into their 47 Merc to get down the road?

    Any ID on the water pumps?
     
  24. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 2,179

    carbking
    Member

    Carb is a 1942.

    Jon.
     
  25. Kan Kustom
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 2,009

    Kan Kustom
    Member

    These flathead mystery solver case's are always fun.
     
  26. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,335

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    Look at the block differences I noted to photograph...those should give a close age. If it falls into those categories, next step will be to pull a head, as water passage differences will determine 221 or 239 even if it's a 221 bored out to 239
     
  27. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 1,296

    wheeldog57
    Member

    A raised intake mounting surface means something too, 40 and later or something like that.

    Sent from my E6810 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,335

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member

    The requested pictures (posts 15 and 17) will sort it all out. We have only eliminated 1938 so far...
     

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