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History Home made Hemi

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jalopy Journalist, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. zenndog
    Joined: Feb 16, 2008
    Posts: 162

    zenndog
    Member
    from Santa Cruz

    The V4F is a mis-type, the Stewart/Creel car is V4, 152.131mph, sorry. Yeah I was thinking about the whole spacing thing. I will chat with you tomorrow in person.
     
  2. Jalopy Journalist
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 255

    Jalopy Journalist
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    So I might as well throw another update post instead of leaving this whole thing in the dark.

    I have desided against the Hemi 6. The major reason being shipping, and the second being, why would I buy an engine to avoid machining that I am going to have to have machined anyways? The only good thing about the Hemi 6 is the elusive as ever 265.

    The 265 (in the form that I am looking for atleast) puts down a factory 302 hp and 320 lb.ft. tourque. Now not only is that enough but with very little machining and minor upgrades you could have 320 hp, it is all that in a 6.


    By the way, anyone wondering why a 6? This is one of the rides that is inspriring the car I designed for this engine. Mine will be simpler, less curves, more straight lines, and a bit longer and wider to boot. Here it is:


    [​IMG]

    I like the performance of the 245, but it isn't worth try to contact companies that ship things from austrailia to austin (or maybe just cali then to austin) to pay them to slip an engine into one of their crates.
     
  3. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,017

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    So do you already have the 250? If not and you want more go, why not get a 292? Takes up the same amount of space. Or even better a 302 GMC. Little clean up bore and you have a 312 inch six. Spring for an Arias or Skinner head and you have an alunimum cross flow 12 port head that will run very well indeed and look cool. Which seems to be the reason you wanted a hemi in the first place
     
  4. Jalopy Journalist
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 255

    Jalopy Journalist
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    It is a little about looks, no lie, but I really like hemi power. I was thinking about the 292, but how is mileage. And yes, that is a huge factor in engine choice. The 230 is the mileage maker.
     
  5. revjimk
    Joined: Nov 30, 2010
    Posts: 89

    revjimk
    Member
    from Denver

    Not that it will help you, but at Speedway Motors museum in Lincoln, Ne. there are mucho engines with "homebuilt" conversion heads (I guess if you have a foundry at home). Most of us know about Arduns & Rileys, but I was amazed at how many guys could create their own heads back in the day. One had rocker arms actually exposed, recently featured in a car mag, I think they called it something like "the Wobbler" (Wiggler?)
     
  6. Stukka
    Joined: Feb 13, 2007
    Posts: 64

    Stukka
    Member
    from SoCal

    You want a true hemi head 6? How about Jaguar XK engine.
    They're vintage, great looking, lots of power, sound amazing. Last time I dealt with one the prices weren't too bad. Speed parts are available because of the vintage race guys. The tranny is bulletproof. Just a thought
     
  7. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,017

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The Plymouth engine of mine shown above is on display in the Speedway museum along side the Flathead version of the same year Ply. Check 'um out.And yes. the Jag is very pretty and a true hemi. They were making them since the early 50s at least. Get one of them.
     
  8. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,557

    RodStRace
    Member

    Arrgh! gotta reply...
    Hemi power? Look at a Toyota 2-TC. 1.6L aluminum HEMI head.
    Not exactly raw, neck-snapping HP.
    If you have read and absorbed all the posts, you might want to consider something that someone has already mentioned.
    The short block you are considering is a long stroke, small bore engine. This type of engine, without a cam or head to mess with the tuning is going to tend toward a lower RPM, higher torque application.
    Lower RPM due to piston speed. Shorter stroke = less speed, long stroke = more speed for a given RPM. There are limits.
    http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=85349
    Higher torque due to the under square (smaller bore, larger stroke) design. These tend to breathe less (smaller bore = smaller valves) and have more mechanical advantage due to the centerline of the rod journal of the crank being further away from the main journal centerline. Think of a longer bike pedal crank. The same force is applied further from the center, changing the amount of force. That's why torque is expressed in Ft. Lbs. Change the weight OR the length, and the force changes.
    So you have a low RPM, high torque basis. You are considering designing, developing and building a head that tends toward high RPM heavy breathing.
    The idea has some merit, but since the engine will be RPM limited (remember piston speed?), it will not take full advantage of the ability to increase valve size and breathing that the hemi design offers.
    None of this even touches on what the costs would be in time and money. I don't mean time as in 100 hours of 3D design, but then also the design of the mold pattern, casting at least a half dozen to check the mold process, machining, testing and we haven't even talked about the valvetrain yet.
    I'm not trying to disuade you, just trying to show that a simple "what if?" requires a bit more thought and understanding before it moves beyond the dream phase.
     
  9. LANCE-SPEED
    Joined: Aug 10, 2006
    Posts: 2,259

    LANCE-SPEED
    Member

    Are you gonna build 2? One for your landspeed racer and one for your scratch build roadster?
     
  10. fiveohnick2932
    Joined: Mar 29, 2006
    Posts: 889

    fiveohnick2932
    Member
    from Napa, Ca.

    I think Doug had more than one set of those puppies. I wonder what one is for sale? Friend of mine ran his race motor both at b-ville and elmo from 2007-10.
     
  11. 292hulk
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 18

    292hulk
    Member
    from Australia

    Hell, why are people saying this is impossible? Yeah it will cost time and money but it is easily possible. A bloke I know built a twin turbo Rolls Royce Meteor V12. Custom DOHC heads, manifolds, Fuel injection, Ignition. Even built the crankshaft gear to run like a diff up to the heads to turn the camshafts. Very amazing project. In a tractor pulling event. "The Riverina Sreamer"
     
  12. Gator
    Joined: Dec 29, 2005
    Posts: 4,016

    Gator
    Member

    Best response yet. :p :eek: ;)

    YOU are the only one who has used the word 'impossible' in this entire thread.
     
  13. 292hulk
    Joined: Nov 5, 2011
    Posts: 18

    292hulk
    Member
    from Australia

    Jeez, there are some cranky people on forums :) Mate its a theory, we aren't fighting for the world so we don't need nasty tones :)
     
  14. RodStRace
    Joined: Dec 7, 2007
    Posts: 2,557

    RodStRace
    Member

    Take a look at the home aluminum casting thread.
     
  15. Kazoom
    Joined: Jul 29, 2008
    Posts: 25

    Kazoom
    Member

    Interesting thread. A friend and I in the past had plans to make a 4 valve head for our Clevelands years ago baised on a copy of the 60's W43 olds 4 valve head which the layout works great on the ford too. The project got shelfed because of getting some of the Dominion / Arao 32 valve heads but been thinking one day too try and finish our fordmobile 32V project. So anything can be done with enough passion&coin.

    W43 link...
    http://www.streetlegaltv.com/news/the-w43-oldsmobiles-dohc-455-v8-that-never-was/
    [​IMG]

    for now though, got some other custom 4V head projects to finish...

    428 32V Maxx
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  16. Kazoom
    Joined: Jul 29, 2008
    Posts: 25

    Kazoom
    Member

    Just wondering, did you hear on the approx cost of the sbf hemi setup?, I heard these billet hemi heads where $15,000?, sure looks nice though!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  17. The impossible part is taking a stock head, with parallel valves and reworking that into a cross flow hemi head. Yep pretty impossible.

    I don't think anyone said its impossible to do it starting with a clean sheet or fitting an existing hemi head .

    Turned into a cool thread actually.
     
  18. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    That IS a damn fine chicken. I drew a picture of a chicken for my daughter just last week, I was going to post it for comparision, but I cant find it. All I can find is pictures of spiders. Damn kid is ALWAYS asking me to draw spiders...OMFG! You dont suppose my 3 yr old daughter might be a...a...RAT RODDER???!!!
     
  19. Jalopy Journalist
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 255

    Jalopy Journalist
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    Okay, so the Aussi Hemi is long gone, but the British Invasion is underhand. I love jag inline 6's but I never knew that they are hemis... :D

    Ooh, goody, goody! See, I say that making a my own head is a route, but really it isn't. Too costly but if I had to, I would have. I do love the sound of a Jag 6, they are sexy, but I still have questions.

    What are the dimensions? Not bore and stroke but width, height, and length please.

    Also, what cars can they be found in?
     
  20. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Best part is, hes gonna follow this engine with a homebuilt, front-drive Miller 91. Well, you know, old Harry didnt have cad skills, so this guys got a big head-start on him...
     
  21. Jalopy Journalist
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 255

    Jalopy Journalist
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    No. I am not building a FRONT DRIVE Miller, I am building a boat tail styled speedster with a body and frame styled after a a miller indy car.

    And I am not saying that I am going to make the head in my garage, and I am not even sure that I am going to anymore. I really like the idea of the jag motor.
     
  22. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 20,086

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Better break her from that nasty habbit like real quick!!!
    I grew up around nasty little "Funnel Webs" when I was living down under.. :eek:
     
  23. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,331

    badshifter
    Member

    If you did, you would know you can't convert your head to a hemi head. In the late 70's I put a hemi head off a jap car (don't remember details) onto a Cosworth block. It worked mechanically/physically, but made less power than a Cosworth. Some things ain't worth the effort.
     
  24. Jalopy Journalist
    Joined: Nov 4, 2011
    Posts: 255

    Jalopy Journalist
    Member
    from Austin, TX

    No, mileage is a must. I plan on driving this as much as possible. To have space for me to have as little as a back pack's worth of storage space I have to push the tank to an area that means that it will only be able to hold 10 gallons max. And yes, for the engine from austrailia costs too much because it would have to be modified as well to be a cross flow (optimal power possible).
     
  25. The Jag 6 might be the best idea for you. They're still around and can be had fairly cheap. There is a small following putting different parts in them to increase performance (and make rebuilds cheaper!).

    Another choice might be the old Toyota 5M-GE inline 6 from the early Supras and Cressidas. They used a VERY good hemi head design, and have quite a good aftermarket parts support.
     
  26. Dr. Frankensickle
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 383

    Dr. Frankensickle
    Member
    from Kansas

    Sorry to drop into this thread,I was expecting a flame war when I read the title and the first post.I will move along now and keep my mouth shut.
     
  27. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    [​IMG]
     
  28. terryr
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 286

    terryr
    Member
    from earth

    There's more to it than pouring aluminum. There a heck of a lot of design work and knowledge and testing to get something that doesn't suck and can outperform a stock head. Just because it says HEMI doesn't mean a thing.
     
  29. jeteng
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 1

    jeteng
    Member
    from australia

    here is my sb mopar hemi
     

    Attached Files:

  30. flynbrian48
    Joined: Mar 10, 2008
    Posts: 7,146

    flynbrian48
    Member

    Actually, a friend of mine IS building a front drive Miller, but it's not a 91, it's an exact replica of the V16 roadster that Miller built in the 30's. He started with nothing the entire collection of blueprints and a very large pile of money. Block, heads, trans and transfer case housings cast right here in Kalamazoo, and the body is being built even as we speak.

    He has some original bits of the original engine, which was sawed in half for use at Indy as a V-8. It's quite a project.

    Brian

     

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