In retrospect; If we had the ability to look outside our region like we do today with the computer, I feel certain we would have made the decision to have used a Chrysler in our Thunderbolt. And then who knows how long we might have run it. In fact, it might have still been around today. Tom S. in Tn.
Just to thicken the plot, Dearborn Steel Tubing stamped the special double centers used on the rims and the base center was derived from the regular Ford parts bin (either Truck or Lincoln line, not sure which).
Didn't say they manufactured them....just that they could sell you what you needed. I do believe they welded some together....just another question to get answered from them.
Frank; I don't know what happened to your Thunderbolt pic, I know I'm not dreaming and saw it earlier this morning. At any rate, it appeared to be a beaut. Of the Thunderbolts sold in our region of the southeastern US, 3 were sold here in the Nashville area of middle Tennessee and the next closest being dealers in Atlanta. Of those 3 cars, ours was the 87'th one manufactured by DST and the only one found in active competition past 1967 from our region. We actively raced it through 1973, but like mentioned, had to go to an alternative engine. The other 2 were converted into street cars, one reportedly with a 390, and the other with a 289 and both released out into the used car pipe line. Story is the 289 car was actually used as a trade in on a new Oldsmobile, and spotted a little later by our cars current owner who I've recently shared stories with, being used as a family car with the kids climbing over the non tilting econoline bucket seats to get in the back. The T'bolt started as poor mans utility sedan stocker, but soon ushered in one of the wildest and most radically modified bunch of renegade drag cars in history. But sadly, just as the fun got good, the party was over. And it still makes me sick. Perhaps that was the reason corporate execs decided to put the halters on the program and place strict limits as to who could obtain real racing parts through their only outlet of H&M. But not unlike automatic military weapons, there is know telling the lives that decision saved by keeping that stuff out of the hands of the general public who might have had enough $$ to be dangerous, and especially if there were several others around with the $$ wanting to be just as fast. It's difficult to argue with decisions made at Fords corporate level. Managements decision of late by one of the worlds oldest manufacturers of motorized vehicles to operate outside government subsidy and bailout, will prove to be one of the most solid business decisions of any corporation in global history. And what a history FOMOCO has had. Tom S. in Tn.
Most of you know the '64 Thunderbolt and Galaxie Lightweight came with the 427 Hi-Riser. H-M offered the same engine for marine application. Check out the special exhaust manifolds. These Holman-Moody marine parts are like gold today.
1964 Ford and Mercury NASCAR teams also campaigned tthe HR engine with a dual plane single 4V intake manifold. HR heads were outlawed after one season at the same time that NASCAR banned the 426 Hemi engine (which, like the HR head package, was deemed "legal" for Grand National competition in 1964 though far from stock/homologated). Frank, did you notice the H&M 427 Cammer marine engine in the shots I sent you? Talk about unobtanium!
Here is a new '63 Galaxie 4d H-M modified for a German customer to run on the Autobaun. It had a blueprinted 427-425 4-speed........and a special large capacity gas tank for those long trips at over 100 mph. Don't you know it took some German cars by surprise.
i'm trying to post 2 pix of "big red" . i'm hoping this works . claymore was kind enough to send me instructions on how to post pix , but being the dufuss that i am , plus being one of those fossils who never quite "got" computers - well , we'll see . jack edit - it looks like it worked . maybe i'm not as dumb as i look - tho most folks would say that's impossible ! but i digress . and thanks again , claymore . i don't know why the pix came out so small , as they appear much larger in my computer photo file . the photos are from the spring , 1965 issue of "clues" magazine , which was a FoMoCo published truck mag . i'm pretty sure that "motor trend" , "car life" , or possibly "hot rod" published a piece on "big red" also . i'll try to check when i have more time . jack
if anyone is interested in more info on "big red" , just google "ford gas turbine truck" . i found lots of photos and articles . there's even a film on you tube , but unfortunately i can't see it due to my primitive setup . i even found a model / toy made by tonka back in '64 or so . looked pretty good . they said one sold on e-bay 6 years ago for $260.00 !!
I was hoping some of the folk here who had H-M&S connections might have some behind the scenes gas turbine pics to post. Whatever became of this truck? Tom S. in Tn.
This is the massive new Holman & Moody brick building as moved into in the mid '60s. The hanger was re-assembled behind this building closer to the Charlotte Airport runway. Both of those buildings were demolished about 5 years ago to make room for a new runway. This is one of the pictures sent to me by C5HM.
I don't have very much historical info to offer, but I do have a buddy that worked at H&M for several years. He sent me a pic of this shirt that he has LONG since outgrown! They tend to get dirty closer to the bottom now for some reason.
A friend of mine from the area saved a bunch of bricks from the building. He sandblasted the Holman and Moody logo on them and gave them to some of his car friends. I was lucky enough to get one.
here's a pic of "the godfather" himself in a ford [ naturally ! ] at the '56 southern 500 . that's bill blair in the merc on the outside . no , ralph didn't win this race , but "the babe ruth of stock car racing" - pops turner - did ; driving a purple and white ford to an easy victory over the chevys and chrysler 300s .
here's a pic of bobby allison in the original [ i believe ] "coke machine " . this was holman moody's entry for 1971 - a 1969 mercury cyclone . ford had quit racing in 1970 , so HM was on it's own . to make matters worse , this was the first full year of the infamous restrictor plate . at that time , different size plates [ holes] were assigned to each manufacturer's engine . the boss 429 got the worst of the deal and [surprise] - the 427 chevy got the best . so most of the ford teams [ mopar , too ] installed their old wedge engines , as they were allowed to use bigger plates [ holes] - tho not as big as the chevys were allowed to use . so ralph and bobby went racing with this little ol' 427 merc , and dominated the season on the super speedways - winning more big track races in a season than anyone else had up to that time ! . it was said that this was ralph's all-time favorite race car . it sure is one of mine !!
A few posts back I showed the new H-M brick building from the outside. Here is an inside shot courtesy of 65HM. This is just unbelievable. There was not anything CLOSE to the Holman-Moody operation in the '60s. NASCAR, BOATS, SPORTS CARS, CAN-AM, A/FX, and who knows what else was being prepared inside this building. And I took it for granted.
I seem to remember that John Holman bought the production machine line for the Boss 429 Cylinder head after production had ended.( Bought is not the correct word here,stole is not the correct word either, let's say it was somewhere in between,of course on the low side !!! ) That John was some negotiator !
Here is John Holman standing with one of his legendary 427 Ford NASCAR engines as it would be in a race car with water pump, alternator, etc just before the dyno releases the horsepower number. Photo courtesy of C5HM.
anyone know who this guy is ? yup , it's uncle ralph in a thunderbird at the first ['59]daytona 500 . this is a bit of a mystery , however , as there was no #12 t-bird entered in the race - nor was ralph , himself , entered . there were 6 t-birds in the 500 , as i believe that's all HM had completed up to that time [ 2 more were built later in the year ] . i don't remember seeing any of the 6 painted in these colors . so what happened ? while i can't explain about the car , i believe ralph was test hopping or setting up the car ...but for who ? i've heard ralph say he was forbidden by ford to race later on , but ford was not DIRECTLY involved with HM or racing in '59 . so maybe ralph just figured he was too busy entering and setting up 6 cars to actually race . in any case , these are interesting photos . jack
Bill Blair's son ... Bill Blair of Thomasville, NC worked for Bill Stroppe at the time, 1957 I know for sure ... with the Mercury Mermaid speed trial car and others. Bill is a friend and a big Pontiac man who restores and nostalgia drag races some rare Pontiacs. Joel www.JFNStudios.net
The Allisons were always favorites of mine ... and the cars he drove for H-M were favorites too ... but in all fairness these years in NASCAR were ones of the manufacturers (all of them working hard for all sorts of advantages ... the very limited SOHC engines, the areo cars and more. I don't think it was ever even in any genre of racing and once one brand, no matter what brand it may be ... starts dominating things ... things are going to change as they should in my opinion. To have one brand have an overwhelming advantage stinks up the show ... and racing is a show, entertainment. In my opinion it is pretty boring when all the cars are the same brand. Just my two cents. Joel
That's the really sad part about modern NA$CAR "racing" The cars really are just ONE brand. Cookie cutter identicals, in fact. And, yes, that fact does really stink up "the show"*. Brian France seems oblivious to that fact. But not the fans. Hence the empty seats all over. The factory muscle days were far from boring. Would that "Grand National" stock car racing could be as entertaining again. * I really can't imagine, someone like, say, Curtis Morton Turner**, or Fireball Roberts or Mr. Moody worrying about "the show". Turner and his contemporaries were in it to win and that was their only concern (that and the next party that was starting in fifteen minutes). That was racing. What passes for competition these days has a lot more in common with championship 'rasslin' than racing. I no longer watch. ** I would pay BIG $$$ to see Pops Turner on a short track with talentless Danica Patrick or some of the androgynous little girly boys in NACAR these days. THAT would be something to see.
I know this is not what some of you will agree with but I have followed NASCAR since the '60s and it has survived because it has rolled with the flow. It almost died in the '70s until Chevrolet was MADE to be competitive. I watched the first televised live Daytona 500 as Cale Yarborough, with inboard camera, pointed to the checkerd flag and charged to the win. I watched the fight of the century. I watched as Bill Elliot lapped the field under green to capture the million dollar bonus at Darlington. The power of that Ford Thunderbird over the rest of the field was mind boggling. But true, the "girly" boys today would probably got their asses whipped regularly back in the day. However, sponsors dictate racing today and these talented drivers have to be in lock step with the sponsors wishes. I truly believe today's drivers are as good as any in the past....except Curtis Turner. I don't care how many races or championships are won Turner will always be the man. The reason is not just from watching him race but from the best drivers of his era saying so. Just my 2c.
Another great picture of the engine room courtesy C5HM in about '65. There are several different engines being prepared including a Cammer and a marine.
#179; " I know this is not what some of you will agree with but I have followed NASCAR since the '60s and it has survived because it has rolled with the flow. " But did you ever think you would live to see the day when an Asian car would race and win ? Go ahead and roll with the flow, but I walked away from racing totally in 1980. I see the writing on the wall for an environmental friendlyrace or a 'Green League' once electric and alternative fuel cars take over the market. : )) These photos are great, but that's all that's left. It's all gone, and it's not coming back. Tom S. in Tn.
I respect your opinion Tom and if racing was not exciting for you in 1980 I don't blame you for leaving. But I have always enjoyed about any kind of racing and enjoy it more if there are several cars capable of winning. Asian cars are new to NASCAR but in the early days of sport car racing the American cars were the invaders. I watched Martinsville yesterday and it was very exciting the last few laps with Earnhardt and Harvick battling for the win and then I watched NHRA and the T/F and Funny Cars were so close to each other at the finish line going 300 mph it was just unbelievable. I don't see me ever losing interest except green cars. But then again I was at a motorcycle drag race last fall and watched an electric drag bike go almost 170 mph in the quarter. That was exciting too.
Racing has always been a changing sport/business/entertainment and it always will be. There was a big change in NASCAR around 1966-67 with the advent of the built chassis cars and it all rolled along ... it isn't what it was in all of racing ... but that's the way it has always been. I too prefer the way things were in my youth and early adult years but the competition is still there. To each his own. Joel
Brother you are so right...history indicate that H/M were are are still historically the masters. Ernheart, Gordon and Johnson are no comparison and should thank their million dollar contrats to H/M......but respectfully RIP Dale!
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