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History Holman-moody the history

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by frank spittle, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    I'm not a historian, but wasn't this and one other car of the time, the reason templates were made for tech? Tom S.
     
  2. rawhide427
    Joined: Apr 26, 2011
    Posts: 27

    rawhide427
    Member

    Tom,
    I believe that Junior and Smokey are responsible for about half of the rule book used today.
    regards, Roland
     
  3. hlfuzzball
    Joined: Jan 27, 2005
    Posts: 216

    hlfuzzball
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yes the car was forced to run in the "Sports Racer" category do to extensive body mods. I think the engine was a 302 and back then the ASR class, I believe was "over 5 liters" engine capacity.
     
  4. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    ............... :)
    Tom
     
  5. Falconred
    Joined: Mar 27, 2008
    Posts: 872

    Falconred
    Member

    If the rule book doesn't say it's illegal then it's legal.....
     
  6. BrerHair
    Joined: Jan 30, 2007
    Posts: 5,009

    BrerHair
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Smokey's '67 chevelle, right?
     
  7. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    I visited Lee Holman today and he was working on this GT-40. That is Jim Rose standing in front. Jim is from England and worked on the original GT-40 program back in '63. This is the first Holman & Moody built continuation GT-40 and Jim has been here on numerous occasions helping build it. It was interesting talking to him and him talking back to me in his James Bond accent. Lee was having it FIA certified today for the new owner.
     

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  8. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Lee Holman allowed me to look through the 50 year old racing scrapbook his mother put together as history was unfolding. The news articles have patina but recorded what was happening at each race H&M won. The first out of the scrapbook is Fred Lorenzen, the guy with movie star looks with the Darlington beauty queen after winning the '61 Rebel 300.
     

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  9. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
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    Lee Holman as a very young apprentice circa early 1960s.
     

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  10. y'sguy
    Joined: Feb 25, 2008
    Posts: 701

    y'sguy
    Member
    from Tulsa, OK

    Frank, thanks for so generously sharing your experience. I've always been a follower of the HM brand and particularly the HM work of that era. please keep 'em coming and allowing me to live it vicariously thru the stuff I see and read about here.
     
  11. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member


    Thanks, I will post "stuff" from time to time but would like to see more posts from other guys who were involved with H-M or used their parts and services.

    Here is something that was fairly common at NASCAR races 50 years ago but not today. The whole pit crew appears to be joining in on Fred Lorenzen's victory lap. The fact it was a convertible is the reason it could be done.
     

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  12. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    From the scrapbook. This had to be about 1960 just after the Falcon was introduced. I included a couple shots under the hood. I had no interest in such a thing back then but would love to have it now.
     

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  13. ecode ragtop
    Joined: Apr 28, 2009
    Posts: 125

    ecode ragtop
    Member
    from illinois

    Man, I love that picture of the 61 ragtop, I really need to get some pictures of the 56 ragtop(Curtis Turner) that I built. Tom
     
  14. CDXXVII
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 144

    CDXXVII
    Member
    from Vermont

    Can anyone educate me on the 1965 homologation rules that allowed Ford to compete in NASCAR Grand National with their 427 wedge when less than 350 street Galaxies with the 427 were built?

     
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  15. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member


    I don't know for sure but it could be the 428 engine was also accepted and there were more than enough of them in the '65 cars to make up the difference.
     
  16. Ray C's son
    Joined: Dec 27, 2009
    Posts: 410

    Ray C's son
    Member

    I don't think the 428 showed up in Galaxies until 1966 as the 7 Liters. I believe there was more than 350 Galaxies with 427 engines, also. They came in a couple of versions, Q and R codes, with the R being the high horse fire breather. This is how I remember it, anyway.

    Kevin
     
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  17. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Thanks Kevin for your info. After doing some research the 428 evidentally was not offered in '65. Only 327 427 "R" code Galaxies were produced and no "Q" codes so the total production was 327 according to the Galaxie Registry. Either NASCAR did not require 500 or they got snookered.
     
  18. ecode ragtop
    Joined: Apr 28, 2009
    Posts: 125

    ecode ragtop
    Member
    from illinois

    When did NASCAR start to require 500 units. In the mid 50's it was 100 units. Also with the 390 being offered in the 65 Galaxie and being the same F.E. family all NASCAR limited the cars to 430 cubic inches, so I would think that alone would meet the requirements. Tom
     
  19. HalSharpe
    Joined: Oct 23, 2012
    Posts: 1

    HalSharpe
    Member

    Are there any of the original 50 Thunderbirds still around. I have seen one at Mark Martin's museum in Daytona but I do not know if it is an original
    Hal
     
  20. Ray C's son
    Joined: Dec 27, 2009
    Posts: 410

    Ray C's son
    Member

    I thought later in the '60's they had the 500 unit rule. That's why the number of Boss 429 Mustangs (to legalize it as a production engine) Talledegas, Superbirds and Charger Daytonas. My memory isn't the best, though, because I thought it was always 500 units. They must have raised it at some point to make it harder for the factories to build "cheaters", I guess.

    Kevin
     
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  21. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Homologation.....a term we have heard forever but I have known little about. So I did some research. It comes from the Greek word homologein meaning to agree or allow. Yes, Nascar and NHRA used it to require a certain number of special engines or special aerodynamic body styles or lightweight cars be produced to be legal to race. But there is not anything on NASCAR's website about it. It has been over 25 years since the Monte Carlo Aerocoupe was on the track and I believe the last car built that NASCAR used homologation on. I believe 200 were the required number. But when did homologation begin? Not in '63 when Junior Johnson used the 427 Mystery Motor. Not in '64 when the 426 Hemi won the Daytona 500 with only a few produced at the time. I can't find homologation used in NASCAR until '69 when NASCAR required 500 Dodge Daytona winged cars be built. There were 505 built. It's predecessor, the '69 Charger 500, had a production of 392. Could it be 300 were required for it or none? NASCAR required homologation for the Boss 429 engine (500) and the Boss 429 Mustang took care of that and homologation for the Ford Talladegas and Mercury Cyclones. For 1970, Nascar came up with a different formula to approve the Plymouth Superbird winged cars. 2 cars per dealership or 1920 cars. Not long afterwards is when the auto manufacturers quit pumping tons of money into racing and Holman-Moody became a casualty. I can't recall any special body styles after 1970 until the Aerocoupe. Am I missing something? Did NASCAR require 500 Hemi equipped cars be built in '66, creating the Street Hemi? I don't have the answer.
     
  22. CDXXVII
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 144

    CDXXVII
    Member
    from Vermont

    And didn't Bill France dis-allow the 427 SOHC because it was not considered a 'production' engine? Bill Holbrook of Ford's X garage told me they mocked up an SOHC production line to try and make it look legit but France wasn't fooled.
     
  23. Ray C's son
    Joined: Dec 27, 2009
    Posts: 410

    Ray C's son
    Member

    Pontiac also had a Grand Prix version of the Aerocupe. I've seen a grand total of one of those. I'm sure the rules on homologation changed as often as France wanted it to. Nailing down specific dates and numbers may be tough. One things for sure, it brought about some cool engines and cars.

    Kevin
     
  24. C5HM
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 124

    C5HM
    Member
    from TX

    Frank, Bill France paid lipservice to the FIA's (International Automobile Federation) homologation rules during the 60s. Prior to 1967, the FIA required 100 units of a car/item to be raced to be built. That number was upped to 500 in 1967. The SCCA and NASCAR further increased that number to essentially one vehicle for every two dealerships in 1970.

    On a related note, the 427 Cammer was not banned from NASCAR competition. If you pick up a NASCAR rules book from the mid 60s you will see that the SOHC's use is specifically provided for...but only in the Galaxie car line. That effectively saddled the Cammer with a several hundred pound weight penalty. It also (perhaps more importantly) put the engine at a serious aero penalty, since the Mopar guys were running intermediate body styles that didn't push as much air. Ford tested the Cammer in Galaxie H&M (Lorenzen) trim at Daytona in December of 1965 and determined the package to be uncompetitive. When France would not modify his rules regarding the SOHC, Fomoco boycotted most of the '66 season.

    The 427 Cammer was tested in this chassis, C5HM-10047.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2012
  25. There's one of the Pontiac 2+2 Aerocoupes here in town.. The owner has let it sit out in his driveway for years. I talked to him recently and it suffered some hail damage this past summer. He said they were produced in Canada and production was just a tick over 1000.
     
  26. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Thanks for the info John. I always thought the 427 SOHC was banned and not allowed at all. That is interesting. My question now is how Junior Johnson/Ray Fox and Johnny Rutherford/Smokey Yunick were allowed to race the entire '63 season with an experimental engine. There were only about 18 Chevrolet 427 Mystery Motors assembled. At least two of them went into Corvette race cars. Three more of those engines were owned by Smokey Yunick and two were sold at his auctions back in the '80s (I was there). His other engine was sold to Floyd Garrett prior to the auctions to go in his '63. One of the buyers at Smokey's auctions turned out to be the owner of one of the Corvettes which had replaced the Mystery Motor decades ago.

    Also, how did Petty get permission to use the 426 Hemi when only 5 or so had been assembled when he won the Daytona 500 in '64. There would eventually be 100 factory Hemi cars built (35 Plymouth Hardtops and 35 Dodge Hardtops....the rest lightweight 2 door sedan drag cars) but it would be 6 months later or the end of calender year production. Did NASCAR give a grace period?
     
  27. C5HM
    Joined: Jan 3, 2009
    Posts: 124

    C5HM
    Member
    from TX

    Smokey told me that 48 Chevrolet Mystery Motors were cast. They were allowed to run...along with the Chryco Hemi in '64, the over the counter Pontiac 421 super duty engines in 1961, the non-regular production Ford 427 High Riser and Tunnel Port heads, The Boss 429 dry sump system, the Yellow Banana, the 15/16ths Chevelle (and so on) by Big Bill France "For The Good of Racing". At least that was France's explanation. NASCAR giveth and NASCAR taketh away. sic semper.
     
  28. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    I have not seen any Hal. I did see a '58-'60 T-Bird street car that could have been about 10 or more years ago. It was a straight drive, the only one I have seen.
     
  29. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    From the scrapbook. This is poor quality but a rare picture of John Holman under the hood of a car. This was before Holman & Moody and when Holman worked for Pete DePaolo. The '56 Ford pictured was the "Purple Hog" driven by Curtis Turner.
     

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  30. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Here is an example of Holman & Moody Marine. The pair with a Nailhead Buick V-8 powered Glassmaster inboard-outboard. Note the spark arrestors on the twin four barrel carbs. Here is proof it didn't have to be Ford powered to get in their shop.
     

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