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History Holman-moody the history

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by frank spittle, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member



    thank you once again , claymore . i could not get that pic to post , no matter how hard i tried . that's when claymore told me that "bitmap" photos can be difficult to upload , so he offered to post this and others for me .
    this pic shows godfather ralph with curtis turner's '62 USAC ford . tho he'd been banned from nascar the year before , ol' pops continued his good relationship with FoMoCo , so HM provided a car for him to run in USAC , and , i believe some MARC [ later to become ARCA] races . curtis won the pikes peak hill climb that year - i believe setting a new record - in what was only his second try . even A. j . foyt never tried pikes peak , and i've always wondered why .
    OK , that "fence" on the front of curtis' car that claymore and tom asked about ? that's actually a cow catcher . you see , most of USAC's races were run in the midwest , often at county fairs , state fairs , etc . the 4 H clubs were always at these affairs with their livestock , and these young people were notorious for letting their animals roam free while they wandered around enjoying the fair . often these critters would wander onto the track during the race , so drivers took their cue from railroad locomotives , which employed heavy duty bumpers to push cattle off the track . as most of the critters that roamed onto race tracks were much smaller that cows [they might range from chickens to pigs ] the cars didn't need the massive bumpers that locomotives used . usually chicken wire or some lightweight fencing served the purpose . and that's the reason for the stock car cow catcher .
    oh , and if any of you guys are interested , i own a large bridge - located in brooklyn - and i've been thinking about selling it . would any of you care to make me an offer ? :):;):D
    ACTUALLY , that apendage on the front of curtis' car is there to keep rocks and mud from hitting or clogging the radiator . they were used extensively back in the day on dirt tracks - and maybe still today , for all i know , as i haven't been to a race since....well , the last time i went to a race i saw REAL cars . to go into a little more detail , the type of screen as seen on pops' car was usually called a shaker screen . this was because the screen would be mounted in such a way that it would shake and bounce everytime the car hit a bump ,which would shake the dirt and mud loose from the screen , allowing air to flow thru to the radiator . sometimes mechanics would suspend large nuts or other pieces of metal from a chain attached to the top of the screen . these would bounce against the screen when the car was at speed , again knocking the caked up mud from the screen . they ran these screens in nascar , too , and just about everywhere they ran on dirt tracks .
    now about that bridge... i'd really like to sell it , so any reasonable offer will be considered .... call me at [555] 555-5551 after 6 pm . :p
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2011
  2. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    ooops......... That was your pic Jack.
    Sorry about my confusion. I realized Claymore was posting your picture after I went back and read the caption again, and have to apologize for being caught up in the grand nostalgia that picture represents and bought flooding back to me, especially after it became full screen! I can't put that into words, but I can say thank you Jack for providing it.
    Best of regards (again); Tom S. the one in Tennessee

    P.S.; got any more southern style short track pics you could share? How about non-sanctioned run what ya brung drag racing??
     
  3. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member




    if you'll google "ford turbine truck" you'll find more pix of "big red" than you'll prob. find of a 2011 ford pickup .
    we discussed this truck earlier in this thread , if you'd care to check the back "pages" .
    hope this helps .

    jack
     
  4. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member



    not to worry , tom . i knew what you meant . and it doesn't really matter who posts these pics , as long as we get to share them . that's the fun of it for me .
    and do i have anymore pix from back in the day , or run whatcha brung ford match racers ? hey , do bears....

    funny pix-8.jpg


    well darn- i guess they do !! :)



    edit - i posted some pix and an old "hot rod" article on the "psycho" altered mustang on the altered wheelbase thread . and i've been trying to post photos of the souza bros. and dad mustang , with no luck . it's not a bitmark , but it won't post . i'll keep trying , and i'll post some more . stay tuned .

    jack
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2011
  5. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Saw the Orion and Psycho piece. Great!
    Are your pictures digital images, or real life scrapbook photos like #486 above?
    If you have many more like #486, then perhaps an upgrade might be in order:

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Canon-Can...r=PSGooglePLA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=15174835

    Or let Kinko categorize everything and put on a flash drive.
    You have some real valuable shots, and that's no bull (bear) s...
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  6. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

    hi tom-
    i didn't "take" most of the photos i've posted , and i'm sorry if i've given anyone that impression . it wasn't intentional , at any rate . but i've never tried to sell them or take credit for them , either - as some people have . what i have done is copy photos into my computer when i've seen any photos that interested me posted anywhere . i don't see anything wrong with this as long as i don't try to take advantage of anyone - and i don't believe i have. in fact , i have seen at least one pic that i DID take posted in another thread on the HAMB . i wasn't given credit for it , but that's okay . i guess if you put it "out there" it's fair game . and most people seem to be doing this , anyway .
    i have several thousand pix in my computer , and i just recently had them put on a flash drive , as i was scared to death i'd lose them if this blasted thing crashed . i believe the photos of the honker II - TAKEN INSIDE the HM shop - are the only photos posted HERE that i actually took .
    the photo of the "psycho" mustang on the altered wheelbase thread was from a magazine , as i'd said in my caption . the photo of the "orion" mustang was originally posted by "muttley" , but he apparently didn't know where the photo came from , either , as i asked for info on the car , but he didn't know anything about it .
    i hope i've made myself clear , but i'm not sure that i have . my point is i don't want to step on anyone's toes . i'd like to think this is all about sharing information , and having fun with it . i'm hoping everyone agrees with me .

    jack
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2011
  7. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    Clear as mud Jack, but at any rate, I wish I could see more of those early drag and short track pix. This is what you don't get every day anymore.
    I know size matters (that's kb's) when posting pics to limited band width. I think 400 or 600 maybe at this site. Maybe try cropping and saving in a smaller size, then post.
    That's all I have.
    Tom S. in Tn.
     
  8. CDXXVII
    Joined: Nov 5, 2010
    Posts: 141

    CDXXVII
    Member
    from Vermont

    Jack,

    I see your T-Shirt in the first photo too. You know I have seen Lee at Carlisle Ford the last few years selling hats, shirts etc. His table was at the end of one of the first rows.
    Lars

     
  9. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

    what's still not clear , tom ? i'll try to explain further if you'll let me know .

    as far as the size of the pic goes , that may be the prob. with the souza bros. & dad mustang . it's listed as 1.04 MB , and over 1 million "bytes" . i'd be lying if i said i have any idea what that means , but those numbers seem to be A LOT higher than the other pix i checked . and it couldn't be cropped much , as it takes up most of the 2 page spread [ and i'm only able to copy 1 page at a time on my scanner , anyway ] . i never had a prob. down/up loading pix on randy's . is there something about the HAMB that won't allow certain pix to be posted ? if so , is there something we can do to change that ?

    jack


     
  10. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member



    good eye , lars . yes , that's an "all ford nats." t-shirt . i think the last "AFN" i attended was about 2004 . the trouble is it's a long drive - there and back - and i haven't been able to find anyone to go with me in recent years ; tho i have to admit i haven't tried very hard .
    i never saw lee there . i bought my hats and shirts over several years from a man who was selling HM apparel . i don't believe he and lee saw eye to eye , so i'd rather not say anymore about this - "publicly" - as i don't want to cause any problems .
    jack
     
  11. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

    i taped the hall of fame induction ceremony last night , but didn't get the last few minutes , as it ran over and my VCR shut off before it was over . i'll have to retape it when they repeat the show . i did watch a few minutes of it , however , and they said that they'll be moving the ceremony up to january - starting next year . so i have

    A QUESTION FOR DR. CRAFT :

    i'm assuming that you know something about fred lorenzen's ailment . i hope i'm not putting this the wrong way , but is there a good chance that fred will survive until next january , and still have any amount of awareness ? i'm sure everyone knows that fred is on the ballot , and we'd all like to see him get into the HOF while he's still with us .

    and i have one more question for anyone who may know . i read on another forum that "Ol' DEE DUB YA" [ crybaby waltrip ] pretty much made a fool of himself at last year's HOF ceremonies . i didn't see it , but it was apparently caused by his resentment over not being inducted in that first "class" . can anyone tell me what he said or did ? i read that it was shameful .

    jack
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  12. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

    when i first posted the photo of the HM '58 t-bird - the one i called the "prototype" - i said that i believed that was the first race car HM actually built . i've had to rethink that , as i'd totally forgotten about this car . how i forgot about it is beyond me , as it's one of my favorites . this car MAY have been the first car they built , but it was certainly one of the first .
    this is curtis turner . in my opinion the greatest DRIVER [ not the greatest "racer" * ] that ever turned a wheel in nascar . he was one of the greatest drivers EVER , IMHO . he could do things with a car that people said couldn't be done . leonard wood still has a look of "awe" in his eyes when he talks about him .
    the following pic shows pops on the beach in 1958 . the car was a zippertop - i believe this was the first time "zips" were allowed to race in nascar . this same car , sans roof , had easily won the convertible race the day before . now , with the roof bolted on , he's shown trying to catch paul goldsmith's smokey built and blatantly factory sponsored pontiac [ and remember , NONE of the factories were supposed to be involved in racing -wink , wink !! ] . according to one version , john holman , knowing how hard "ol' leadfoot" could be on a car , begged curtis to take it easy in the early laps of the race . for once , and for some unknown reason , curtis followed instructions . unfortunately , driving with a balloon foot resulted in pops' losing a lot of ground to leader goldsmith . he was , in fact , about a mile behind paul by the midpoint of the race . someone finally gave curtis permission to dip his toes into the carburetor , which resulted in curtis doing what he did best : get the absolute most out of a car that could be "got" . i have this race on tape , and it's my all-time favorite. curtis starts his slides about 300 feet before entering the tight north turn -- getting airborne running thru the hole that everyone else avoids . he was shutting off later , and stomping the loud pedal sooner than anyone else on the track ....and he was catching goldsmith ! did i say that paul was in a smokey built race car ; that it had a bigger engine ; and that it was factory backed ? smokey - and probably paul , too - began to hear curtis' "footsteps" , or rather the roar of that big FE that , no doubt, had ralph moody's fingerprints all over it . smokey flashed a pit board warning paul that curtis was coming . now they talk about ironhead being an intimidator . goldsmith was intimidated enough that , even tho he still had a big lead , he spun out entering the north turn . pops also spun when someone cut him off . he actually had to turn around to get back on the track , costing him a lot of time . when paul entered the north turn on the last lap , curtis was almost to his bumper . at the finish , pops was about 6 car lengths behind paul .
    pops' car was sponsored by a group of carolina ford dealers . tho they didn't win the race , they sure got their money's worth....and so did the fans !

    * IMHO , shared by many other fans , david pearson was the greatest RACER to come out of nascar . he was one of the greatest drivers , and was always thinking . more than anyone else , he knew how to win .



    the first 2 pix show curtis passing jack smith's '58 chevy . it was no contest .
    i have a pic in a book or mag showing the HM crew either removing or installing the top . unfortunately i can't find it . however , i did find a pic showing how close it was at the finish .


    pops-'58 daytona 4.jpg

    pops-'58 daytona-2.jpg

    pops-'58 daytona-5.jpg

    pops '58 daytona-3.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  13. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

    below is the pic showing just how close it was at the finish . goldsmith is only a few yards away from the finish line . and remember , curtis was about a mile behind at about the midpoint of the race [ the race was 160 miles in those days ] , and , unlike today , he wasn't helped by caution flags bunching the cars .
    the great dan gurney , after racing turner at riverside in 1966 , said "he's everything they say he is !" . and curtis was almost 42 years old at that time .






    pops'58 daytona.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2011
  14. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

    We use an Apple here, and it's made simple. What I've learned is the provider for Hamb here has 488.3 kb allotted for JPEG or JPG images. I have no idea about any of the other formats.
    At any rate, I save image as (make up name) .jpeg to photo smart. Microsoft = photo edit? In there I am able to resize, touch up, alter, and make within the 488.3 kb limit.
    Clear as mud....... ?
    I hope that helps. I really want to see those pics.

    Now about that bridge.........
    Tom S.
     
  15. Race Artist
    Joined: Feb 9, 2008
    Posts: 954

    Race Artist
    Member

     
  16. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

     
  17. "..... however , lother motchenbacher [ now i MUST have spelled that wrong ! ] drove a 427 ford powered car ; and mario drove the "429er" , which was an aluminum boss block out to 494 C.I. however , a ford never won another can-am race ...."

    ".... personal aside here regarding the 494 & plus alum. block,,in '97, I was working in a machine shop in Charlotte owned by Lee Willyard, an alumnus of H-M, and a good friend of Lee Holman, for whom we often did some work. I O- ringed a block for copper wire around the cylinders. , I easily lifted it up on a mill table.
    This motor was going into a CAN-AM restoration. ....."



    In the latest(July2011) Popular Hot Rodding, there's a feature car,69 Mustang, with one of the H-M 494 CanAm aluminum block motors. It's a great article with some info on the engine. Seems the owner of the block had only a bare block . He got together with the car builder and after obviously tons of time and money ,ended up with a very slick CanAm powered Mustang.

    Stan
     
  18. 390Merc
    Joined: Jun 29, 2008
    Posts: 659

    390Merc
    Member
    from Indiana

    I believe that is the car Kim restored for a doctor. I transported it to the Kruse Labor Day Auction about 10-15 years ago for the doctor who was there to represent it. He sold it for less than the restoration cost. The desire to own those cars has really increased since then.[/QUOTE]

    Are you referring to a light blue 64 with the "Shoney's" name on the side of it? I took a picture of that car on a hauler at Auburn several years ago.
     
  19. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Yes, that was probably my hauler I transported it there on unless it was after it sold and was being shipped to the new owner.
     
  20. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Old H&M.jpg This is a true picture of sadness for me sent in by C5HM. It is the razed site of so many pictures on this thread, the expansive Holman & Moody brick building. Most all of the H&M glory years were at this location. An airport runway covers this site now.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  21. FastFreddy28
    Joined: May 26, 2011
    Posts: 1

    FastFreddy28
    Member
    from chicago

  22. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    It is so nice to have you join us Amanda. Your Dad is a hero to all of us. I will be checking in on your Facebook page for Fred.
     
  23. econolineherb
    Joined: Apr 12, 2010
    Posts: 121

    econolineherb
    Member

    WTF Where are my replys going ? I sent five in the last month and none show up .
     
  24. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    This reply posted. Try reposting the others.
     
  25. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member


    ????:eek:???:(????:confused:?????:eek::eek: :eek:?????


    i have NO idea what you're talking about , tom .

    my friend claymore posted the pic of the souza bros. mustang on the altered wheelbase thread , tom . it's good to have friends who know what they're doing ......because i don't have a clue !

    about my bridge ... you can take a test drive anytime you like , only you'll have to go to it , as it's difficult to transport . however , you'll find that it has a smooth ride ; gets you across very quickly , and maintains it's resale value . better hurry , tho , as i've received several offers already .
     
  26. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member

    for you , amanda .

    just by good fortune my copy of "hemmings muscle machines" arrived yesterday with a short photo feature on the 1963 rebel 300 . this was the lead photo . your dad didn't win it this year , but he did beat curtis turner in the 1961 edition - for his first superspeedway victory . he won the rebel again in 1964 .
    hope your dad is doing well . he was a hero to all of us ford fans back in the '60's , and feared and respected by fans of those "other" cars - even if they didn't root for him .... and i suspect many of them did , anyway .

    jack




    zzzzzzzzzzzzzz12.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011
  27. econolineherb
    Joined: Apr 12, 2010
    Posts: 121

    econolineherb
    Member

    We knew your dad well . We ( my mother , brothers and sisters ) Booed your dad at Ohare . he would win and stop on the track in front of us . We sat on the first row as the cars went into the pits .We would talk to him at the adult refreshment stand after the races . He was one cool guy .
    My dad had the big red Oldsmobile # 164 . Our friend that lived across the alley from us had the only ' 57 Chevy with whitewalls at the track .
    Would like to thank your racing family and friends for making our weekends fun as kids .

    Let me add this .
    Freddy would say " The more you boo the faster i'll go . We were kids we booed loud .
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  28. johnnie
    Joined: Jan 7, 2009
    Posts: 493

    johnnie
    Member
    from indiana

    Just checking out the bumper in the pic on Jack's last post. Nice and tight to the fender. So, my question is... when did these modifications begin?

    P.s. Notice Fred looks to be in good shape too.
     
  29. frank spittle
    Joined: Jan 29, 2009
    Posts: 1,672

    frank spittle
    Member

    Fred Lorenzen.jpg The great Fred Lorenzen working on his own race car (sent to me by C5HM). My, my how times have changed.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  30. genuine jack
    Joined: Mar 6, 2011
    Posts: 268

    genuine jack
    Member


    i'm no expert , by any means , but just taking some educated guesses .
    if you're just talking about streamlining , i don't believe it would've mattered much in the early days - except at darlington . i'm not sure that the mechanics would've done that much for darlington , either , as not a whole lot was understood about aerodynamics back then . and most of the cars were barn doors , anyway .
    but then came daytona in 1959 - where speeds were up to 145 mph . i've read that ralph moody did a little - ahem - "massaging" on the '59 t-birds - where the roof meets the windshield header . there is a kind of ledge there that ralph apparently "minimized" . that would have probably been the start of when they seriously considered aerodynamics - and probably by other mechanics , also .
    i was looking at some pix of some '60's fords , and was surprised that that fairing that smoothed the rear bumper corners into the body work didn't come in until about 1968 . maybe it wasn't legal until then .
    there were all sorts of tricks worked on the early to mid '60's cars . bud moore was said to have narrowed his '64 mercurys 2 inches . most or all of the HM fords had their windshields laid back . you can see on the '64 galaxies that the front ends are a lower profile , as i believe ralph was mounting the noses over earlier ford inner fenders , which were lower . then , of course , it got out of hand toward the late '60's , so big bill had to bring in templates . this eventually led to the car of tomorrow - which are supposedly all the same - and that led to my not caring altogether :mad:.

    edit - forgot to mention the cars that ran on the beach - the "measured mile" in the '50's . if you've ever seen some of the cars that ran for straightaway records , you've seen some creative aerodynamic work - often with cardboard covering grilles or smoothing headlights . and lots of masking tape was used to further smooth little "air catchers" . so maybe they did know a lot more than i'm giving them credit for .
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2011

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