was the pic , above , with fred standing/walking in front of the car taken during the firecracker ? i noticed that the 2 crewmen are in short sleeves . jack
C5HM, I am sure it was the same car Lorenzen wrecked at Riverside. My memory was he said it happened in late '65. No wonder Wendell's repairs didn't pass since he had only weeks to make repairs before the Daytona 500. My former T-Bolt had the correct 427 Hi-Riser engine.
It must have been a warm February in 1965, Jack, because that shot is taken during practice (note the incomplete lettering on the quarter) for the 1965 Daytona 500. That's my old Galaxie in the shot, in fact. The guy on the left (under hood) is the fabled Jack Sullivan. He was one half of the "Sully and McCall" duo that built Fred's cars in 1965. Somewhere after the 500 Fred began wearing a real nomex suite nad gave up that lightweight thing he is wearing in the shot. This is Fred's "Hinchman" suit from later in the year.
Cool car. I bet you miss it. I am building an HR for my '64 H&M Galaxie. I got lucky and found an NOS set of heads the other day. I'll be piecing the rest together soon. Working on the body at present.
not to be questioning you , john , as i'm sure you know , but how can you tell that's your old car , and that it's february ? i was thinking that looked like sully , but wasn't sure . the guy on the right - although i'm sure it's not - looks like jack bowsher from this angle .
Jack I've got several thousand old shots. Many, many of my old car. Those shots helped authenticate that car to the satisfaction of the Ford Motor Company, the AACA and Most importantly, Mr. Moody. Many of those shots were from Daytona. If you look around the net you'll see shots from the Daytona qualifiers that year that show the #28 as lettered in the shot posted. They didn't get around to finishing the lettering until just before the actual race. That shot is one of several in a series taken during practice. Did a quick search, found this photo straight away from the qualifier. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-racing/nascar/season-recaps/1960s/1965-nascar.htm That's also the same driver's suit that Freddy was wearing in victory lane at the 500. As mentioned, he was wearing a Hinchman by the mid point of the season. If I am not mistaken, the suit I own was worn at the World 600. Check out this link to a current E Pay add. Note the suit. http://cgi.ebay.com/1965-Fred-Lorenzen-Daytona-500-Winner-Sun-Tachometer-Ad-/270633677830 How about a little live action? Check out the suit. http://www.videosurf.com/video/1965-daytona-500-1271882502
GET WELL SOON FREDDY saw him on dave despain show last year , just looked elderly , seems to regret leaving a hell of a drver
thanx , john . i checked out the pix on your link . i love seeing those big galaxies hanging the tail out on the banks . that HAD to be a hairy ride !!
Here is a shot of Wendell Scott's ex Lorenzen/H&M Galaxie after he'd rebodied it back to 1965 trim. He raced that car until he got the red #34 '66 Galaxie that Brent Hajek now owns. After that he got an ex Benny Parson's ACRA/NASCAR H&M 1968/1969 Tornio. It has been said that Ralph Moody was mighty fond of Mr. Scott. As a result he gots lots of H&M stuff and very reasonable prices. More than a few old H&M cars got raced by "lesser lights" on the NASCAR tour after their days at the top of the totem pole were through. It is impossible to calculate just how many careers Ralph Moody's handi-work either started or furthered in this way. Way more than a few, for sure.
There has been many posts on this thread mentioning Jimmy Tucker. This is him at the '89 H&M Reunion. The other guy in the blue shirt is the organizer. Over time I will be posting many other pictures of the H&M employees taken at the reunion. I will try to identify what their duties were. As mentioned before Tucker did just about anything that needed to be done and still does.
this is one of , and possibly THE , first car that HM built after forming their company . it's a 1959 t-bird , and this is at daytona before the first daytona 500 . notice the battlebird behind it . the first car that HM built , i'm almost sure , was a 1958 t-bird GN - i'll call it the "prototype" . however , nascar ruled it as illegal for competition [ can you imagine big bill being controversial ? ] . the '58 t-birds used a coil spring rear suspension , but ford went back to the more typical leaf spring rear for '59 . france legalized the t-birds for GN for '59 , and HM had 6 of them at daytona [ they eventually built 2 more ] . it's very likely that they converted the '58 "prototype" to a '59 with trim and rear suspension updates , so this could be that car . apparently the other 5 were sold , and this being the "house car" , i'm going to guess that it could have been driven by curtis turner in the 500 . as most folks know , the t-birds were powered by a 430 C.I. lincoln , and they were - despite their boxy , barn door shape - FAST . pops was the second fastest qualifier ; a tick behind cotton owens' big native american ; and the finish put daytona on the map . it was a photo finish , with lee petty's oldsmobubble crossing the line about 3 feet ahead of johnny beauchamp's t-bird . but some say that beauchamp was actually a lap ahead of petty , and nascar "missed it" [] - not unheard of in those days . t-birds went on to win 6 GN races for '59 , and i don't believe nascar has allowed those 6 victories to count as ford wins to this day . nahh...there's no politics in nascar ! View attachment 1315876
don't know why , but the pic disappeared from the above post . darn , i hate computers !! anyway , here's the pic
thanx , claymore . i got that shot off the webb somewhere - a long time ago . don't know who took it , unfortunately . but if it's ford history ; ford racing history ; ford nascar history .... hey , i'm in !! jack if you liked that pic , check out the next ones ......
can anyone guess who this is ? tick..tick..tick..tick....DING . and the answer is.... ....eveyone's favorite godfather , ralph moody - his-own-self . i know almost nothing about these pix . apparently they're single frames taken from a film . i'm almost sure they were taken at the '59 [first] daytona 500 . but ralph did not drive in that race . neither was there a #12 t-bird , or one painted in this scheme , running in the race . but #12 was the number ralph had used often in his GN career . my guess is that ralph was testing the car in practice . does anyone know anything more about this ?
that would be the last car HM built , or at least the last car they ever entered in a GN race . bobby unser drove it at riverside in 1973 .
Fred Lorenzen's son came with him to the '89 H&M Reunion. He had just turned 16 and Fred told me he had never been to a NASCAR race. That would change a couple days later as they were the guests of Humpy Wheeler at the World 600. I can only imagine what was going through 'LiL Lorenzen's mind as he looked inside for the first time an actual race car his dad drove. He seemed to be amazed at how famous his dad was.
C5HM, You mentioned (post #363) that the third '65 Galaxie built for Fred had been aquired from a Ford dealer. Did it have an 'R' in the VIN or did the factory equipment not matter as a starting point for a GN car?
1965 was the first year that H&M built their cars from un serialized bodies-in-white. The replacement, off of the show room floor car carried 5A66Z***** "390" VIN. I am sure that NASCAR could have cared less what the cars started out as by 1965. I doubt the VIN tabs on that body lasted more than a New York minute once the H&M boys started framing and baming. And , of course, Galaxie frames were not stamped with RPO VINs after 1962. I am betting that show room car became Lorenzen's late season Galaxie. if so, that was the car Freddie won the second Martinsville race with. It is also likely the same car that was wadded at Riverside in January of 1966. And that would mean it was also the car that Wendell Scoot drove in 1966. If so,that car later became the replica Daytona 500 car that Mr. Haynes built 20 years back. It is the same car that now belongs to Brent Hajek and has been returned to Martinsville trim.
john , was all of that blue under the hood in 1965 ? in the B&W pic you showed [ with fred walking in front of the car ] it looked a lot darker - probably black . also , the blue in the photo above looks a bit dark to me . is that just the lighting , or was the car painted with a darker shade of blue than the original ? jack
Jack, The early '65 season car was spray bomb black under the hood and under the car. At some point later (not sure when) in the season Fred's cars got blue paint (1958 Chevrolet Cashmere blue, btw) under the hood and under the chassis. Freddie McCall told me that was done because the blue made it easier to see cracks. That was one of the mistakes made in the original restoration of Brent's car. But now that that car has been correctly configured as the late season, short track car that it actually was, the blue engine box and chassis are now correct. BTW, Lorenzen's cars did not pick up blue passenger compartments until '65 (IIRC). Though there is a replica of the Gurney Riverside '63 floating around with a Cashmere blue cockpit, that is incorrect.
Here's a Tire Question: I've seen photos of Junior Johnson's #27 and #26, from '65 with both Goodyear and Firestone decals over the front tire, but most times no decal at all. Someone from another forum had asked me if they ran Goodyears in '65. My answer to him was: "I think the teams could choose the better of the two for each particular track, say if Firestones were better on the short track, for example(or visa versa)." Was my answer even close? Were some teams contracted to only run one or the other? That could put a team at a big disadvantage if they were obligated by contract to run an uncompetitive tire. What's the real story?
You are correct. The teams could run what they wanted from race to race. H&M very often used Firestones in the early 60s. But they would sometimes run Goodyears, too. BTW, tires were track and car side specific back in those days. That's right, different, compounds for a given track and designated right and left side tires (by '64 at least). NASCAR inspectors policed things (or tried to) by requiring the tire manufacturers to have color coded marks on the tires that designated track and right side/left side compound. Firestones usually had a color impregnated circle "embossed" into the side wall for quick visual reference. Different colors designated different compounds and, I guess tracks. Freddie McCall once told be about being caught by John Holman in the shop after midnight in the process of cutting out one hue of color coded circles from the sidewalls of sets of tires so that different colored circles could be glued into place. Mr. McCall said Holman asked him :Are you doing what I think you're doing?" When McCall said yes, Holman just kept on walking. They say it's not cheating unless you get caught, right? That would be caught by NASCAR officials.
I remember Ned Jerrett (I think) winning the fall race at Atlanta in '64 after Lorenzen droped out or wrecked and Ned saying, " I really flew after I got Lornzen's tires". You don't think that Freddy might have had tires that were just a little bit better do you!! Firestone always liked advertising about races won.
Did some of these have unboltable hard tops? I seem to remember seeing one in a show at Charlotte many years ago. It may not have been H&M but it was a stock car. It was a convertible with a removable factory looking metal roof.
hi tommy - all of the t-birds were hardtops at the '59 daytona 500 . shortly thereafter , all or most of them had been converted to "zippertops" - cars that could be run as convertibles or , by bolting the roofs back on , as hardtops [ grand nationals] . nascar had allowed this practice or procedure in 1958 , after the factories had "withdrawn" from racing [ well , all but two of them did ] . most everyone was racing "independently" , and had little money , but with a zippertop , they could enter GN races and convertible division races with the same car . curtis turner was very successful with his HM ford ziptop at the 1958 daytona races . he easily won the convertible race on saturday ; then , with the roof bolted on , nearly won the GN race on sunday . supposedly there is only one original HM t-bird left . that would be fritz wilson's car that's in one of the museums - perhaps the one you saw , tho i think it has the roof on it . and i have to make a correction to my original post on the HM t-birds . i'd thought there were only 6 t-birds in the first daytona 500 , but after checking i see there were 7 . 5 were still running at the finish , and all 5 were in the top 13 . jack
That must be it. The top was bolted on but it was easy to see that it was removable. Thanks for the info. I always wondered why they went to all that trouble. I was checking these photos to see if they showed signs of being removable. I was starting to believe that I might have imagined it but I talked with my buddy who was with me and he reassured me that I was not going insane. The sign with the car explained how rare this car really was. I have seen pictures of Petty's 57 Olds convertible but I have never read much about the convertible segment of the sport.
Jeffrey James posted this picture back on page three. While I was at H-M recently I was able to identify some of the guys in the picture. We all know Phil Bonner and the guy under the hood with the cig is Lee Terry. In the back from left is Jimmy Pagan, son of shop foreman Eddie Pagan; partial head unidentified, Randy Holman anf Kenny Thompson. Those A/FX cars were simply awesome.
The Jalopy Journal
