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Holley Red fuel pump=NOISY?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Jeff Norwell, Jun 3, 2006.

  1. repoman
    Joined: Jan 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,276

    repoman
    Member

    In other words "I have never run a red, blue, or black Holley pump."

    If the red pump delivered the fuel you need, there are mechanical pump that flow as good or better.

    I have a Mallory that is a little queter, but still loud.
     
  2. I have noticed that the regulators running returns definately help the fuel pumps "RUN Quieter" and with less strain..., But the failures I've seen on the Holleys have been in their "Brushes"... they break and jam the armature.

    This problem of "broken brushes" has happened on both types of regulators with or without a fuel return and that indicates to me that it's a "Quality" issue.

    I've run Carters for many years with or without "return" regulators and haven't had any "Failures".

    I've sold used Carters and Mallory's to friends 8-12 years ago and the pumps are still working on their cars...!
     
  3. Great diagram

    The Mallory 70 and 110 pumps are low pressure pumps that can be used without a regulator for the street or with a return-style regulator for racing. Mallory 140, 250 and 500 series pumps are high pressure/high volume and must be used with a regulator (dead-head or return-style).
    The bypass in the pump can malfunction. This can cause the pressure to drop or increase so much that the pump motor fails. Even if the bypass in the pump is working correctly, it is still possible to have a pressure drop with a dead-head regulator, even when using a large pump. See the image below:
    [​IMG]
    At idle, gauge #1 will read 10PSI where gauge #2 will read 8 PSI. At full throttle, the increase in fuel flow will create a pressure drop between the pump and the regulator. The amount of pressure drop depends on the restriction in the fuel line ... a 4 PSI drop is not uncommon. Gauge #1 will now read 6PSI and because a dead-head regulator cannot raise the pressure, gauge #2 will also now read at 6PSI. The result is a 2 PSI pressure drop at the carb or Nitrous even though a very large pump may be in use.
    NOTE: When using a dead-head regulator, a second gauge should be installed just before the regulator. This will allow you to check that the pressure before the regulator stays higher than the set pressure. Most race pumps have the bypass set very high (14-25 PSI) to avoid this problem. However, this creates another problem. The higher bypass pressure makes the pump work harder and draw more amperage. In fact, the pump works just as hard at idle as it does at full throttle down the track! This is one of the main causes of early pump failure. To counteract this problem of high amperage draw, many companies manufacture voltage reducers for street cars to slow the pump down and increase the life of the pump.
    A few "WHYS" to return-style regulators:
    This is a profound point to be made when I (or your engine builder, carb builder or fuel pump manufacturer) tell you to run ONLY a return-style system on your vehicles.
    • You can avoid these headaches (especially when the pump dies just before a final-round elimination and you do not have enough time on your hot-lap, or for that matter a spare pump, to fix it in time to race ... Loss By Default!) by running a return-style (or bypass) regulator.
    • The bypass in the pump is plugged or disabled when you run a return-style regulator so there is no chance of it failing.
    • The pressure just before and after the pump is always the same so there is no need for two gauges.
    • The return regulator has complete control over the pump pressure and will automatically compensate for pressure drop in the fuel line.
    See Below:[​IMG]
    If there is s 2 PSI pressure drop between the pump and the regulator, the return-style regulator will force the pump to produce 10 PSI. If there is s 4 PSI drop, the pump will be forced to produce 12 PSI. In either case, the pressure at the regulator will remain at 8 PSI (or whatever you set it at). The pump will also live longer since it is only producing 10-12 PSI instead of 14-25 PSI. This means that a voltage reducer is not needed, even on a street car.
    Fuel pressure regulators suffer from something called "recovery time". Recovery time is explained as the amount of time it takes the regulator to react to changes such as a sudden increase in fuel demand (as when you jump on the throttle or hit the Nitrous button). Return regulators react much quicker for several reasons. Return regulators allow the fuel to flow straight through without making a 90° turn. With a return regulator the fuel doesn't have to make it's way around the plunger like it does in a dead-head regulator. Just before you jump on the throttle (or hit the nitrous button), the fuel in a dead head system is barely moving. In a return system, the fuel is constantly moving from the rear of the car to the front and back again. This means that the fuel already has momentum, which reduces recovery time. This movement of the fuel also keeps the pump cooler and reduces vapor lock.
    "We never race any hot tracks in the heat of summer, do we?"
     
  4. prostreet68
    Joined: Nov 17, 2008
    Posts: 6

    prostreet68
    Member
    from California

    I just finished a Holley Red pump install on my wife's 63 Nova wagon because of a vapor locking issue. I wish I had seen this before I bought this pump. I have it on some serious rubber isolators and it is louder than the 194 cid motor in it.
    It would real easy to change out but I just spent $135 thru Summit. I bought a bypass style regulator and a wiring harness kit too. I may go ahead and get one of those Carter pumps for a backup.
    I pulled a Carter "lift pump" off of my friends 99 Dodge Cummins when I did the FASS install..Wonder if that Carter would work?????
     
  5. lorodz
    Joined: Jul 26, 2009
    Posts: 3,728

    lorodz
    Member

    im using the holley blue pump and its very quiet when the car is running i cant hear it at all i even have it mounted under the hood ( just for now till i get the fuel system worked out needed to make shure the motor ran lol.)..
     
  6. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,449

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    This thread is 4 years old, so I'm pretty sure Jeff got his fuel issues worked out :) still relevant though, so what the hell.

    I just installed a Holley blue in my 57. I was somewhat surprised by how loud it is it makes a real racket. Honestly it doesn't bother me though. When the car is driving the exhaust drowns it out, and I can easily tell if the pump is working or not. I have almost 1000 trouble free miles on mine so far. I'm liking it!
     
  7. Haha. Leave it to the guy with 2 posts to bring back a four year old thread. Welcome to the H.A.M.B. prostreet68. : )

    I had a Summit Racing pump in my '50 Dodge that looked identical to the Holleys. Louder than my straight pipes. Eventually burned up and had to change it out in a Taco Bell parking lot. Had a cheap over the counter Mr. Gasket pump on there after that. Almost completely silent with no issues. Will definitely check out the Carter pumps.
     
  8. prostreet68
    Joined: Nov 17, 2008
    Posts: 6

    prostreet68
    Member
    from California

    Instead of starting another thread I used the search option and I found this thread and thought it was what I was looking for however old.
    I could delete my response...if it bothers anyone...
     
  9. No, it's just funny, that's all. It happens all the time. Good on you using the search option, that's something that doesn't happen enough.
     
  10. prostreet68
    Joined: Nov 17, 2008
    Posts: 6

    prostreet68
    Member
    from California

    I am a member on a lot of boards so I can do as much research as I can on a problem before starting threads...

    This still doesnt stop the noise from this pump....lol
     
  11. I can't see the problem with resurrecting an old thread.
    Is the info given then, not any good now?

    I bought a red pump but are yet to install it.
    Should I sell it on or hope I'm lucky?
     
  12. JeffB2
    Joined: Dec 18, 2006
    Posts: 8,165

    JeffB2
    Member
    from Phoenix,AZ

    Looks like no real solutions to the noise were posted,so here are a couple of things that can help.Get a universal exhaust hanger and use the rubber strap from it as a mount insulator,also if you ran all metal line this can amplify the pumps harmonic vibrations try to add at least 2 to 3 foot of braided flex hose from the pump to the metal line connection and also from the tank to filter to the pump inlet.
     
  13. 65 impala
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,086

    65 impala
    Member

    holy b jesus if u think a holley is loud try a bg 28o its insane
     
    falcongeorge likes this.
  14. prostreet68
    Joined: Nov 17, 2008
    Posts: 6

    prostreet68
    Member
    from California

    I have added isolators to where the pump is mounted to its bracket. The bracket is mounted to a body brace. I dont have any isolators between bracket that is mounted to the body brace and pump bracket. Sometime this week I will add isolators to that location.
    I had really thought about ordering one of those Carter pumps but I want to see if I can quiet this pump down some...
    Oh well...we will see...
     
  15. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,449

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Ha, you guys want it all! Quiet, reliable, good performance, inexpensive... you want it to give you a back rub too?! haha :)

    Yes, the Holley pumps are loud. But even the Mallory and Carter pumps aren't quiet, just less noisy than the Holley, and the Mallory pumps cost a bit more. For 8 years I had one of those cheapo Pep Boys ticker pumps in line, and it lasted a long time (over 10 years, def well worth the $20 the original builder paid for it). But that took a crap on me on the side of a dark highway in coming back from Gettysburg and I had to swap in a spare to get me home. Not cool.

    Pretty much everybody I know using a Holley electric pump has thousands upon thousands of trouble free miles on them. I can deal with noise. I can't deal with getting stranded in the middle of nowhere.
     
  16. 340Fish
    Joined: Nov 10, 2008
    Posts: 101

    340Fish
    Member

    I just binned a Blue pump after playing the same game. Rubber mounted on flex hose it was still annoying. Moved over to Aeromotive... will let you know the result. Also using an electronic controller to keep things cool (hopefully).
     
  17. JeffreyJames
    Joined: Jun 13, 2007
    Posts: 16,599

    JeffreyJames
    Member
    from SUGAR CITY

    thank you 57joefomopar, I have a red pump and have not yet installed it and this thread was makingme nervous!!! I'll take reliable over quit any day!
     
  18. happy hoppy
    Joined: Apr 23, 2001
    Posts: 2,332

    happy hoppy
    Member

    yes, my red Holly pump is noisy, seems to work just fine but I have only about 700 miles on this build and its the 1st Holly pump I have installed.
    I used the thin rubber pad the pump came with but its solid mounted to the underside of the floor near the spare tire well. having only a front seat inside the car does not help either. someday I am going to pull it out and try making some kind of isolator.

    this car was 6V when I got it and it had a no name 6V elect pump that was dead quite.
     
  19. Jeff Norwell
    Joined: Aug 20, 2003
    Posts: 12,913

    Jeff Norwell
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    FWIW....I followed Glenn's advice and used a Carter P4070.... worked very well and I use Carter now.... on everything.
    That Old A is nothing but a memory now..... ha ha
     
  20. dragster dude
    Joined: May 21, 2010
    Posts: 194

    dragster dude
    Member

    i like that comforting noise that a working pump makes
    when it gets quiet i start to get worried
     
  21. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,331

    c-10 simplex
    Member

    How do the carters compare to say, a stock in-tank GM pump as far as durability/dependability?

    Basically, what i need is a replacement pump that will basically take over what the stock, in-tank pump was doing except i don't want to put a pump in the tank or mess with the stock pump.

    This for transportation and possibly long trips. Not for racing.



    1) The stockers have the advantage of being submerged in fuel---which really helps to cool it. Would this be a disadvantage for carters and others that would be mounted somewhere on the chassis?
     
  22. mrpowderkeg
    Joined: Mar 11, 2009
    Posts: 178

    mrpowderkeg
    Member

    I've been around a few pumps and have seen a whole bunch of different ones from all the big manufactures. Any vain type pump is pretty noisy... holley BG etc... What you want to run is a gerotor pump. The one that I've been running for about 6 years now, with lots of street use on pretty stout street car is a Mallory Comp 250 pump. It puts out a ton of fuel but is pretty quiet compared to what else I've seen. Now for most of our cars we don't a big Comp 250 pump. Something probably like this Mallory 140 would work or this Holley 125 gph pump.
     
  23. Anyone know much about the Facet 12V Electric Fuel Pump?

    Looking at buying one for an OT 4 cylinder but would like a bit of feedback on company etc.
     
  24. CONNMAN
    Joined: Jul 19, 2006
    Posts: 1,297

    CONNMAN
    Member
    from Lampe,Mo.

    I have a Holley Noisey "Blue" Pump,,, I love it ,,when i turn it on ,,i can hear it work ,,that way i know i have gas to the two Holley Carbs ,,BUT ,,when i start the motor up ,,i don;t hear the pump at all ,,sunthing about those hedders with out mufflers i guess ,,Music You See ,,if the Pump Noise bothers you ,,GET LOUDER EXHAUST !! Or GET OUT OF HOT RODDING & BUY A HONDA ,,, ,,IT's part of the price you pay ,,
     
    falcongeorge likes this.
  25. bamabucket
    Joined: Dec 15, 2006
    Posts: 67

    bamabucket
    Member

    I have a Holley on my T-bucket and it has been trouble-free for several years. I like the noise because I know it is running but I may try a Carter when the Holley craps out - I know they are much quieter are have heard they are very reliable.
     
  26. Stewart Warner 240-A >>>>.
     
  27. On the third noisy Holley Red in ten years and was wondering if, besides rubber insulation at the frame mount, can the pump be wrapped in something like rubber floor matting? I think the gas running thru the pump cools it but don't want to have problems on the road because of it being wrapped and overheating.
     
  28. 57JoeFoMoPar
    Joined: Sep 14, 2004
    Posts: 4,449

    57JoeFoMoPar
    Member

    Just as a follow up to this old ass thread, my Holley blue stopped pumping after only 2 seasons, very disappointing. I wound up replacing it with a Carter, which is honestly just as noisy as the Holley, but has been perfectly reliable ever since going in. I'll use Carter going forward.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Just Gary likes this.
  29. c-10 simplex
    Joined: Aug 24, 2009
    Posts: 1,331

    c-10 simplex
    Member

  30. Jeff a few years back ( quite a few actually) a friend had a blue pump that we rubber mounted then eventually wrapped it in a insulated aluminum box. Between the sound deadener and the rubber mounts it was pretty much reduced to a mild hum. it was work but it accomplished what the guy was after.
     

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