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Holley 94 - Power Valve Issue + Source for Valves?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Psychobilly Boi, Jan 17, 2007.

  1. Hi Guys,

    Ran into a problem which I'm sure has been covered before but I couldn't turn anything up via the search.

    Ok here is the skinny, I purchased some 4.5 PV's from Holley and they wont fit the 94 in a couple of ways. First and perhapes most importantly, the brass retaining nut at the top of the valve wont clear the channel. The stock part is narrower at the nut and spring. The second issue is the stepped area where the gasket sits and the radiused area close to the stem. I can lathe these off but have no idea how to address the brass nut issue.

    I guess I have two options: one is the take a die grinder to the channel and open it up enough for modern PVs to fit (risky?) or find a source for PV's that will fit 94's AND are available in 4.5's.

    Can anyone help with either a supplier or some info?

    Danny

    The stock is on the left, the replacements on the right. There is a few differences, the spring and brass retainer are narrower on the stock compared to the replacement, the seal surface is flat and there is no radius where it meets the stem and the overall height is less
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    The stock is on the top, you can see the difference in the width of the stock Vs replacement. The who spring assembly on the stock actually sits inside the stem.
    [​IMG]


    This is the stock PV sitting up inside the bowl. It just clears the channel (about 1cm inside the channel there is a step)
    [​IMG]


    Here the replacement's brass retainer hits the step.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Flatman
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,975

    Flatman
    Member

    Have you tried Vintage Carburetion Technologies ? They have a slew of parts available. Also stromberg97.com has parts for the 94 Holley.

    Flatman
     
  3. dave s
    Joined: Aug 2, 2005
    Posts: 354

    dave s
    Member

    i used a dremel tool and took out just the right amount of material to make the newer valves work. i'm not certain on how much material is there, so i was very careful to not take to much out...
     
  4. Hi Guys,

    I emailed Vintage Carb Tech and will wait for thier reply. Stonberg-97.com didnit list any parts on thier website but I emailed them as well.

    I'm a bit wary of taking a grinder to the inside of the bowl as I'm not sure what lies on the other side of that channel. I dont want to drill into a passage or anything.

    Danny
     
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  5. Hi Guys,

    I emailed Vintage Carb Tech and will wait for thier reply. Stonberg-97.com didnit list any parts on thier website but I emailed them as well.

    I'm a bit wary of taking a grinder to the inside of the bowl as I'm not sure what lies on the other side of that channel. I dont want to drill into a passage or anything.

    Danny
     
  6. Flatman
    Joined: Dec 20, 2005
    Posts: 1,975

    Flatman
    Member

    You might try Mac's as well. Couldn't hurt:rolleyes:

    Flatman
     
  7. Hi Flatman,

    Email sent. Thanks.

    Danny
     
  8. 50shoe
    Joined: Sep 14, 2005
    Posts: 640

    50shoe
    Member

    OK, say what you will about vintagespeed.com, but charlie will have the right valve for your 94. yeah he can be a pain in the ass but just order thru the website and you'll have it in a week or so.

    I got my 7.5s from him.
     
  9. flathead31coupe
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,596

    flathead31coupe
    Member
    from indpls, in

    their is a place by me, called promax, that had the pvs that iam using in the two 94 iam running now, i just used the stock pv gaskets on the new pv,also took alittle out the inside of the carb body, to let the spring move freely, but somewhere on here ,i cant find it right now, but they sale the new pv that have been moded to work...
     
  10. Hi Guys,

    I'm getting lots of email replies from shops, no-one seems to be selling them.

    Flathead46, how much material did you take off the inside of the bowl to let the spring function. It looked to me like I would have to go in about 2mm to make enough clearance. Is this right? I'm worried there may be a passge on the other side and I dont want to hit it.

    [​IMG]

    Danny
     
  11. flathead31coupe
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,596

    flathead31coupe
    Member
    from indpls, in

    hey dany i dont know how much i took off, but it was just enough to let the spring move up and down freely, it looked like alot to me, but didnt seem to hurt anything, let see if i can find thoes places that sell the ones that fit....
     
  12. Thanks Mate,

    I'm in two minds about this: on the one hand I dread the thought of ruining the carb but being able to use locally available PVs would be great. Save having to track some down and ship from the states.

    Danny
     
  13. flathead31coupe
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,596

    flathead31coupe
    Member
    from indpls, in

  14. flathead31coupe
    Joined: Mar 23, 2006
    Posts: 1,596

    flathead31coupe
    Member
    from indpls, in

    may you could use an old 94 body to pratice with....
     
  15. dickster27
    Joined: Feb 28, 2004
    Posts: 3,067

    dickster27
    Member
    from Texas

    Sent you a PM PB, I will have some of the small numbers shortly. Don"t be screwin with the carb. Contrary to common belief there are people that make the proper power valve. Right diameter and right gasket base. Seems to me since nobody thinks they are available which means I could sell mine for ....say......$25 a copy, eh? Hell, maybe more since they're none available.
    the Dickster
     
  16. Hi Guys,

    Thanks for all of your help. Will wait for some 4.5's to come in and see what happens. Thanks again.

    Danny
     
  17. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I just compared the PV in a recent NAPA 94 kit with one I bought a couple of years ago; older one has correct shoulder up near center for 94 seal, new has the seal way out like yours (4150 style??) and a taper where 84 seal should be. Looks to me like there's enough material there to just cu a ste in a lathe OR if you are adventurous and primitive with a drill press and file. I think someone with a good eye could do it this way and get decent sealing.
    Behind the area that needs grinding lies the vertical passage feeding the pump discharge and housing the check valve pintle for same. There's plenty of meat for the needed modification, and sinply putting a small rod vertically in that passage will give you a good visual guide to available space.
     
  18. Hi Bruce,

    Thanks for your reply, I was hoping you would chime in!

    I was planning to use a combination of both your suggestions, put it in a lathe AND use a file lol. I dont have a lath bit fine enough to take that down I dont think.

    My friend seems to think that the radius wont affect seating and that the gasket will crush to seal? Visually I can see why that wont work, or is he right?


    How do I uncover the passage so I can put the rod in? Do I locate it from underneath? I'm guessing I might need to take 1-2mm from that section, do you know how much material is there?

    Thanks again for your help.

    Danny
     
  19. Hi Guys,

    The plot thickens: I had a response from a gentleman on Fordbarn who said out of all the 94's he has seen, none have had the step that my power valve is catching on. Different models or castings?

    Danny
     
  20. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,683

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    Your step looks pretty normal to me, though I don't have any carbs here at work to compare...a considerable step is necessary because the main wall of the back of the float chamber comes way too far forward to clear any type valve, doesn't it??
    The passage is directly under the pump suirter and those two screws visible in the photo; take off the squirt, fish out the check valve pintle with a magnet, and you're looking right down its throat and van pretty well see what you are dealing with. I thought standing up a small rod in it would aid visualization.
     
  21. Hi Mate,

    I think I have an answer or at least one more part of the puzzle:

    The carb with the step is stamped 7RT, a truck carb. My other carb is just stamped 59 and it doesnt have that step and will clear the modern power valve.

    Looks like there is a few different 94 castings.

    Danny
     
  22. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 3,894

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    I had no trouble buying the correct power valves in 4.5 from Vintage Speed. http://www.vintagespeed.com/

    I know Charlie has a bad rap her, but it beats modifying the carb. He gets $8.75 each and has all the sizes.
     
  23. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,301

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Okay, I know this is an old topic, but I've got the same issues going on with some of the PV's that are sold by Holley directly. Top retaining nut is too big. Radius was taken care of using the drill press and file routine. Worked great, but it does no good if the PV won't go in.

    I was wondering what ever came of this. I don't have a problem with ordering 4.5's from Charlie, or anyone else if they are the correct fitment. Even though there is plenty of meat in the carb body, I really don't want to modify it.

    Any updates would be helpful!
     
  24. Rich Wright
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 3,922

    Rich Wright

    I'm certainly no carb expert but I HAD to learn how to make 94's function 'cause I use them on my two FHs.
    There are quite few castings for these carbs and the first thing to do is make sure you have matching carbs. I prefer the model 59 because modern PV's fit and work. I like the way the float bowl is vented also. Plus it just looks a little more "vintage" than the later models. I run a 6.5 in the single on my stock '40 Merc in my Model A. I cleaned up the power valve mounting flange as well as I could and made certain there were no burrs or other flaws around the seat area on the carb. I've used this PV for about 4500 miles so far and periodically take the carb apart to make sure it stays clean and is working correctly. No problems/leaks, etc. I average between 14 and 19 MPG, depending on the wind, with this set up. Averaged 15 on my 900 mile trip B-ville and back, cruising at 65 on the way to and 70+ on the way back.

    I use 8BA castings on the other engine on a Fenton dual carb intake. These castings have the step that is causing your grief. I got the best result from running one 3.5 (original PV) and blocking off the other. I've also blocked them both off with no discernible loss of power, however it needs to be said that my driving style no longer includes a lead foot. Even so, I still had plenty of power available for passing, even on grades and hills.

    I've had no problems in getting modern modern PVs to seal as long as I made sure they were carefully de-burred (if needed). I usually install the PV and let the bowl sit for awhile with gas in it to see if anything is seeping under the gasket. If it is, I go back to work on either one of the seating surfaces or pick a gasket that fits better. If I had a lathe I'd turn the PV down for a better initial fit, but I don't so I work around it by doing it this way....

    Hope this offers a little help for you.

    Rich
     
  25. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,301

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I'm running 91-99's. They also do not work with the later seal style. Modifying the PV is easy. The REAL problem is the large diameter spring and retaining nut, as mentioned. If there's just a more correct PV out there that someone has experience with, someone please speak up. I'm ready to order.

    Thanks!
     
  26. JDL
    Joined: Oct 15, 2007
    Posts: 23

    JDL
    Member

    Hello.. you can get them here. use the nylon gasket, it's much better.
    Napa alo has the power valves # 24006 - 24005- 24004 (not Holley)
    jdl

    http://www.vintagespeed.com/
    <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="94%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="18%" bgColor=#ffffff height=106>
    [​IMG]
    </TD><TD width="35%" bgColor=#ffffff>POWER VALVE--4.5
    All sizes available
    Details
    <!-- ##notemptystart.drophead1## ##notemptyend.drophead1## --><!-- ##notemptystart.drop1##
    ##notemptyend.drop1## --><!-- ##notemptystart.drophead2## ##notemptyend.drophead2## --><!-- ##notemptystart.drop2##
    ##notemptyend.drop2## --></TD><TD width="47%" colSpan=2><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="94%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="17%" bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Part#​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff>
    H-28-4.5​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Core chg ​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff>0.00</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Price​
    </TD><TD width="32%" bgColor=#ffffff>
    8.75​
    </TD><TD width="22%" bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Pkg​
    </TD><TD width="29%" bgColor=#ffffff>
    EACH ​
    </TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#c3c3c3 height=24>
    Qty​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff>
    <INPUT size=4 name=Q0000106aAAAMOH>​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#d7d7d7 colSpan=2>Add to Cart</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    <TABLE style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="94%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="18%" bgColor=#ffffff height=106>
    [​IMG]
    </TD><TD width="35%" bgColor=#ffffff>POWER VALVE GASKET
    New nylon leakproof style
    Details
    <!-- ##notemptystart.drophead1## ##notemptyend.drophead1## --><!-- ##notemptystart.drop1##
    ##notemptyend.drop1## --><!-- ##notemptystart.drophead2## ##notemptyend.drophead2## --><!-- ##notemptystart.drop2##
    ##notemptyend.drop2## --></TD><TD width="47%" colSpan=2><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="94%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="17%" bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Part#​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff>
    H-29-N​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Core chg ​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff>0.00</TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Price​
    </TD><TD width="32%" bgColor=#ffffff>
    0.60​
    </TD><TD width="22%" bgColor=#c3c3c3>
    Pkg​
    </TD><TD width="29%" bgColor=#ffffff>
    EACH ​
    </TD></TR><TR><TD bgColor=#c3c3c3 height=24>
    Qty​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#ffffff>
    <INPUT size=4 name=Q0000106aAAAMWC>​
    </TD><TD bgColor=#d7d7d7 colSpan=2>Add to Cart</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  27. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,301

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are the NAPA valve similar to the power valves that Vintagespeed sells then? If the NAPA version are the same I can have all of them by the end of the day. Thanks!
     
  28. JDL
    Joined: Oct 15, 2007
    Posts: 23

    JDL
    Member

    I think this is the 6.5 valve 24005..they fit with no modification. call them to see if they have the 4.5<TABLE style="WIDTH: 100%" cellPadding=2 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #edf6ff" vAlign=top align=middle width=100><IMG onerror="this.parentNode.innerHTML = '
    Image Not Available

    ';" src="http://partimages2.genpt.com/thumbs/96111.jpg" onload=OnImageLoad(); border=0>
    </TD><TD style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #edf6ff" vAlign=top align=left>Power Valve
    Product Line: Echlin Fuel System
    Comments: w/ Holley Carburetor;w/ Carburetor Type: H-2;w/ Carburetor # R-1044-1A, R-1044-1AAS, R-1044A, R-1156-1A, R-1156A, R-1159-1A, R-1159A, R-120-3A, R-120-3AS, R-1283AA, R-1283AAS, R-402A, R-402AS, R-649A, R-649AS, R-695A, R-695AS, R-696-1A, R-696A, R-696AS, R-713A, R-713AAS, R-792-1A, R-792A, R-793-1A;w/ Carburetor # R-793-2A, R-908-1A, R-908-1AAS, R-908A, R-950-1A, R-950-2A, R-951-2A, R-951-3A
    Per Car Qty.: 1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  29. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,301

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Good info! Since we're on the topic... anyone know the part number for the block off plugs???
     
  30. scootermcrad
    Joined: Sep 20, 2005
    Posts: 12,301

    scootermcrad
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Just went to NAPA over lunch and chatted with my guy for awhile. He didn't have any of those part numbers in stock and his Echlin book does not cross reference the the numbers above by their rating. I didn't want to buy something we don't know the number for. It does appear that the 24005 is actually a 7.5 PV.

    Probably just going to have to use Charlie Price's. Speedway has them also, but they appear to be the Holley type with the larger spring diameter. What about Flathead Jack?
     

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