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History History??? Too many choices? Open to discussion (opinions and history welcome)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by porknbeaner, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    So this morning this has been rolling around in my head. I hope this does not come across as a rant, I prefer random thoughts, just open to discussion. OK so I am bat shit crazy I can't tell you what I had for breakfast without it sounding like a rant, just bare with me.

    My young friend @Austin kays opted to throw a 21 stud flatty in his A sedan ( which is probably what caused this post). It was not his only option, he's got a couple of later 24 stud motors and some SBFs as well as some SBCs ( who knows me and doesn't have that option :) ) and well you know the 21 stud was not his only option. Never the less the '34 mill raised its ugly head and if he was a young man in the '30s or even the '40s it would have been a good option to upgrade an A sedan and a easy to come by option. I got an idea that most of us would not consider that option.

    So lets fast forward a decade or two, lets says its about '65 and we own a '60 Falcon. So we cruise on out to the wrecking yard and snag a 260 out of a later Falcon slam it in there and instant go fast Falcon. Today most of us would not go looking for a 260 even though they are still out there.

    Face it today we have too many options even without getting into new millennium motors. a 351 Windsor would go into the Falcon just as easy as the 260, or a 24 stud would go into the A as easy as the '34 motor, right?

    I could list motors all day that have a more modern counterpart that is basically the same motor. We have a tendency to rationalize, "well I got a 355 and it isn't any harder to fit in my Crosley than a 265" Right?

    OK now I am rambling, lets here your thoughts on the subject, uh if you have any. Now play nice and don't fight, please. ;)
     
  2. Terrible80
    Joined: Oct 1, 2010
    Posts: 462

    Terrible80
    Member

    Not sure what you're getting at? Super traditional vs. Quick and easy?

    Sent from my LG-TP450 using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  3. don't really care which motor, as long as someone is actually putting some kind of motor in and getting it on the road
     
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  4. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Just random thoughts that need to get out of my head, you make your own take on it. ;)
     
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  5. The first thing you have to do is pick it an era and stick to it. Next is to pick a style stick to it . There's just a few options within those paramatters.

    Or it's 2018 and the world is your oyster, with the Internet, welder, Along with some ingenuity you can build anything you want
     
  6. nrgwizard
    Joined: Aug 18, 2006
    Posts: 950

    nrgwizard
    Member
    from Minn. uSA

    ????????????????????

    Depends on the time-frame-"snapshot" you are working backwards into. 1st available choices usually quickly got eclipsed by better/faster/cheaper/newer/"more-hi(gher)-tech"/etc (take you pick). How accurate do you want to be - or need to be? & how well do (can) you follow that claim-to-some-time-period? Of which said represntation is usually hypothetical anyways, since very accurate documentation is usually not available, as I would guess that we weren't actually there. When it is, said documentation is only for that particular area/time frame. Hence; the arguments/"definitions" of "traditional" is only from a particular persons' viewpoint(& knowledge) of a particular moment in time, at a particular point/place, at that time point. & for those who were there, & have the cubic coin to replicate what they did, seriously accurate replication(s) are rarely done, due to how crude things were quite often done back then, & what quality is expected now. & then there's history revisionism... :D .

    Enjoy your poison. :D .
    Marcus...
     
  7. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 39,787

    squirrel
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    327 sounds better than 350.

    Of course he had to put the 21 stud in the A. Why bother going to all that trouble to build an early hot rod if you're not gonna use an early hot rod mill?
     
  8. When I was working on my 53 Ford wagon, I wanted a 289.. Not a 260 or a 302. I just remember them fondly from my racing days. Go figure............
     
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  9. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,442

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I build my cars the traditional way......with my hands. ;)
    As far as engines go I use what I have available at the time and make and model play not part in the build.
    Now I wont go for a modern fuel injection with a computer because I work on that crap all day.
     
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  10. Stogy
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 7,729

    Stogy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I like Austin wasn't around to experience the past so I feel its a way of reaching back to the physical ambience of a past time that if you went more modern you wouldn't experience...its more than just going fast and tearing up pavement.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
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  11. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    LOL I did a frame off on a '51 Roadmaster about 7 years ago for a friend/client. Beautiful car and it was a sort of a replication of a car he had in the '50s, well except for the LS drivetrain and 4 wheel discs. Fortunately no one butched the wiring harness ( which was still a nightmare), but the 'putor was toast so after market and I had to teach myself to tune with a laptop.
     
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  12. silent rick
    Joined: Nov 7, 2002
    Posts: 3,678

    silent rick
    Member

    so why does young austin want to use that mill? is he sticking to a certain era with the build? there's nothing wrong with that. what's his intended use of said vehicle? if all he wants is an old jalopy built the way they did 80 years ago to have a little fun with and he has a daily driver to use on other occasions, there's nothing wrong with that either.
    a young friend of mine brought home a 55 chevy and everybody immediately was telling him how they would turn it into a gasser and he kind of got discouraged. i don't think we give the younger guys enough credit sometimes. they have visions just like the rest of us, doesn't mean they are necessarily wrong.
    now if the young guy thinks this model A will keep up with his buddy's modern car, you might suggest another engine. but if he wants to park some place where there's a bunch of old geezers or hamb-minded individuals, he might draw a crowd. i'd like to tell these guys to keep their stick on the ice.
     
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  13. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 9,433

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    Oh yeh!
     
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  14. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Austin was just the catalyst that got my juices stirred. But yes his build is a '30s/'40s build. Something that may or may not have been done but certainly in that era the 21 Stud would have been common. He will probably drive the wheels off of it. Yes he has a fall back late model, but I know him. He still has the '49 Chevy that was his first actual car, he drove it everyday through high school ( he went to school with my granddaughter) with the babbit motor and made regular weekend trips to parts unknown, so it was not just an around town car.

    I am guessing it is like the difference between a 283 and a 327 for a '60s build. The 283s were prevalent in the wrecking yard and there were as many if not more 283 cars as there were 327 cars.

    In the later '60s I made a good living replacing 283s with 327s or 350s. More 327s than 350s because of cost.

    I guess my thoughts are more that it is harder for us today as we have way too many choices more than one must build totally trad. Just random thoughts.
     
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  15. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 9,174

    RichFox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I think using a 21 stud motor is pretty cool. Either way, it's not going to be fast. And if it makes him happy, having fun is what it;s supposed to be about. Why else would I put a Packard in a Vega Bonneville car.
     
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  16. carcruse
    Joined: Aug 20, 2007
    Posts: 507

    carcruse
    Member

    Porknbeaner said: " lets fast forward a decade or two, lets says its about '65 and we own a '60 Falcon. So we cruise on out to the wrecking yard and snag a 260 out of a later Falcon slam it in there and instant go fast Falcon. Today most of us would not go looking for a 260 even though they are still out there."

    That's exactly what was done back then. My 1967 high school newspaper:
    Nadeau's car.jpg
     
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  17. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,442

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    Din't know you had to break in your bearings.
     
  18. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    LOL you remember that stuff, new car had to be driven no more than 55 MPH for the first thousand miles. :D
     
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  19. slowmotion
    Joined: Nov 21, 2011
    Posts: 2,766

    slowmotion
    Member

    That^^^. Same as 289 or 260 sounds better than 302 or 5.0, or 396, 427 sounds better than 496, 502. At least to us old guys. Wax Nostalgic. We were around when these engines really were the shit!
     
  20. I'm still laughing about the article on post #16 above.."A Webster clutch and flywheel"..and there are still posting like this ,even with todays knowledge...
     
  21. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 8,452

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    Let's face it if you really wanted the fastest car today you would not be pissing around with a Model A, Falcon or any other old heap.

    When you do it's about fun and style more than pure performance. I wish more people understood this. If you have been around as long as I have and Pork n Beaner has probably been around longer, you know guys that HAD to have the biggest most powerful motor and it wore them slick with expenses, it is a bear to drive around, breaks something every time they jump on it and they almost never take it out because it is no fun and it will burn up $100 of hi test in a day just puttering around.

    Meanwhile the guy with the cheap low powered motor can hit the key and go anywhere he wants with no worries. He has more fun than anybody and laughs all the way to the bank.

    Boys if I want a performance car I will buy a second hand V8 Mercedes and blow past your hot rod on the highway like you are tied to a tree. But if I want a cool car it will most likely be a mildly hopped up forties fifties or sixties car that wouldn't get a second glance from the tuner crowd but that will take me anywhere in North America anytime I feel like it.
     
  22. I can relate to your buddy @Austin kays . I had a nasty 33 ford pickup cab and frame and wanted to build it like a guy coming home from the war.....just to see what if felt like to drive a post war hotrod. Newest part I used was a dash from a 49 ford car, notwithstanding the T-5 transmission. It was a cobbled up mess but a blast to drive!
    Best part is I got that question out of my system.
    After that I wanted to see what it'd be like to build a hotrod coupe and keep it in a time frame when I was in high school in the mid 60s. My 34 coupe adhere's to that tame frame although few guys used disc brakes in '66 but they were available.
    In 66 my life was in such turmoil I couldn't begin to build the car I really wanted to. Now I can. While I loving the actual build, I can't wait to light off the 57 Pontiac motor and take it for its' first drive....all the way back to 1966!
    33atspeed.jpg 34SIDE12_21_15.jpg
     
  23. I had a bad ass 260 in my 63 1/2 Falcon Sprint,it ran good but it ran like a raped ape after Gene Cromer massaged it. :D

    The first Model A pickup I built I wanted a 260/289 but after I installed thge bare block and set the cab on the chassis I realized cylinders 3,4 ,7 & 8 were inside the cab with me and I ain't height challenged.

    Needless to say I went in a different direction. HRP
     
  24. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    You actually could have had discs from an Avanti in '64. Wish I knew you needed disc brakes you could have had my Avanti discs. :D

    A little off topic but I still wish I had talked you out of that little pickup truck.

    I am the worse in the world to use the "wrong" mill. I was actually recently offered a low mile 413 car motor, but I am partial to the Timex motor. Eventually I intend to build a small journal motor for my Crosley, but funds dictate using what I got and the Timex is still ticking.

    Most of us older guys have a dream motor and a dream build. A 396 4 speed in a 40 Ford coupe would make me happy as a duck. yep not a trad mill but I have always had a thing for 396s. :D
     
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  25. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,442

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    That one is still setting in the back room.
     
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  26. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    I know. I am still trying to get past enough obligations to actually have a minute to leave the house.
     
  27. Automotive Stud
    Joined: Sep 26, 2004
    Posts: 3,781

    Automotive Stud
    Member

    My dad put a 260 in his model A in the late '60s because he knew the Ford parts guy. There was a 260 ordered for a Falcon in the shop that literally fell off of the truck, bent the crank pulley. The dealership decided to play it safe and order another 260 rather than chance installing that one, so dad got a discount on it. He put over 100k miles on that car with that motor in it.

    Today, I'd like to find a Caddy for the '40 I'm working on. Do I hold out for a 331? Or find a later 390? I could still tell everyone it's a 331 for the cool factor... Or maybe a 303 olds, or do I find a 394?
     
  28. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 8,442

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    If you don't get your car running soon I am going to have to make a trip your way to help you out. ;)
     
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  29. porknbeaner
    Joined: Sep 12, 2003
    Posts: 40,351

    porknbeaner
    Member

    Everyone loves a drama queen. Maybe you should get a life or try living 15 minutes in mine.

    But if you want to have a contest:

    since '03 ( the year I became 100% disabled, joined the HAMB)

    *'65 390 Galaxie
    *'65 SBC C-10
    '64 SBC Avanti
    '51 SBF Nash Metro
    '59 327 El Camino
    '60 283 El Camino
    '51 LS Buick Roadmaster
    '53 Flathead F-100
    '49 SBC Lincoln Continental
    *'61 SBC Willys pickup

    The rest is personal. If you got a problem with me take it off the board.

    *personal vehicles the rest are client cars.
     
    Austin kays likes this.
  30. 392
    Joined: Feb 27, 2007
    Posts: 650

    392
    Member

    I like your ramble, it makes us gear heads think and better yet say we have to meet this beaner.
     

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