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History History- Some Know it, Some Think They Know It!

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Robert J. Palmer, Jan 16, 2018.

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  1. I am a student of all forms of history and it always amazes me how people only see or know a very limited part of hot rod, racing or just general history.

    I was at a meeting the other day and someone brought up the subject of the big block Chevy, and that it did not belong in a traditional hot rod show because it did not come out until 1965.
    I said "Yes, Chevrolet did not come out with the street big block until 1965. However the base of this engine is the Mark II Mystery Motor that Chevrolet took to Daytona in 1963 for the 500."
    Ford said "They would sit out if Chevrolet was allowed to run this engine, so N.A.$.C.A.R. banned it, causing Chevy to sit out"
    The man swore up hill and down I was wrong!

    This is not the first time I have something like this happen. My mom sent some photos to my car clubs Fartbook page of Dan Gurney with his 32 five window, the 1966 Indy car, and Gurney Westlake heads reading "God speed Dan Gurney" some people wrote back "I didn't know he was a hot rodder"

    I think some of us need to be less focused on just a small part of our history and take a good hard look at all of it!!

    -Robert J. Palmer
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  2. people's lack of history knowledge is not only confined to hot rods , i'm constantly amazed by the general populations misunderstanding of world events and history
     
  3. waldo53
    Joined: Jan 26, 2010
    Posts: 863

    waldo53
    Member
    from ID

    Maybe I'm misinformed, but I always thought the first Chevy big block was the 348 (forerunner of the 409) that came out in 1958.
     
  4. Petejoe
    Joined: Nov 27, 2002
    Posts: 12,263

    Petejoe
    Member
    from Zoar, Ohio

    Very good point Robert.
    I am still learning , and as everyone else, forming my own opinion, based on MY knowledge.
    Human nature. For a young man your very mature.
    Thanks for preaching the gospel and this thread.
    We all need to be more open minded in many many areas.
     
    Robert J. Palmer likes this.

  5. badvolvo
    Joined: Jul 25, 2011
    Posts: 471

    badvolvo
    Member

    I owned a 72 Camaro RS/SS 396. You would not believe how many times I was told Chevy didnt make a BB Camaro in 72. Guys would get upset arguing with me.
     
  6. 302GMC
    Joined: Dec 15, 2005
    Posts: 7,856

    302GMC
    Member
    from Idaho

    My problem with history - the old guys who were there are passing and we aren't recording the info they can give us. Thanks to those who do.
     
  7. I have a degree in history, and while I absolutely agree with you that in general, we need to sometimes look at the whole picture, and not just a small part, I can also say from experience, that by the very nature of history, it's damn difficult to look at all of it. In school, survey courses cast a wide net over a time period, location, or subject, but don't really dig down into the particulars and details. Most people narrow their focus and specialize on one topic, location or time period.
    Of course, this doesn't stop arm chair experts with either a lack of knowledge, or misinformation from arguing non-stop to assert their case.
    While I don't know the first thing about Chevy motor history, your point about big block Chevy's can be argued from both sides. On in a pure timeline sense, if the Chevy big block came out for Nascar in 1963, then it's theoretically possible for it to have been on the street and in a hotrod, and therefore permissible in a pre-65 hotrod show. From a socio-historical perspective, the argument can be made that just because it was in existence prior to 65, it wasn't common place or available to the public, and therefore not permissible in a pre-65 hotrod show. So, depending on the viewpoint, you're both right, and you're both wrong. :)

    I'm not saying one way or another, just making your point that a history deserves a good hard look.

    (I never thought history was boring).

    My personal favourite is that WWII started in 1941. For American's yes, but for the rest of the world, it started in 39. That's a confusion between the event timeline, and individual country involvement.
     
  8. Amen Robert,

    If we listen we continue to learn, sometimes the truth gets twisted up after being retold over & over but with sites like the Hamb and a real interest in knowing the facts and a willingness to reevaluate what we want to believe.

    I am not a walking,talking encyclopaedia,just a student listening to the elders that not only teaches but have practiced the gospel they teach. HRP
     
  9. DDDenny
    Joined: Feb 6, 2015
    Posts: 19,136

    DDDenny
    Member
    from oregon

    I always like how people debate about certain options on cars purely based on what they either have seen personally or have seen in brochures and build sheets.
    I do know that during the 60's there were some drivetrain combinations that were not shown in the factory literature, such as an early Chevy II 6 cyl/4speed but they did exist.
    The factories were much more flexible during this period and all it took was for the salesmen to know what to write on the order sheet, knowing someone on the inside at the OEM's also made a few odd combinations possible.
    I learned to not use the word "never" because someone will prove you don't know as much as you thought you did.
     
  10. 31Apickup
    Joined: Nov 8, 2005
    Posts: 3,366

    31Apickup
    Member

  11. Mike VV
    Joined: Sep 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,029

    Mike VV
    Member
    from SoCal

    This is all funny. As has been sorta said, (much of) "history" really comes from one's "point of view". History is being proven and disproven almost daily these days

    As far as the 60's cars were/are concerned, I know for fact that at the time, if one part would bolt to another part, Chrysler, GM, Ford would build it on a special order form. My dad and other friends back in the day and the cars that they "ordered"...are prof of this. Things that "are" or "aren't" supposed to be...may just very well "be".
    As DDDenny, above said...

    Mike
     
  12. quick85
    Joined: Feb 23, 2014
    Posts: 3,047

    quick85
    BANNED

    I've found there are a few too many experts right here on the H.A.M.B. Many of the old fellows
    remember what they want to remember while many of the younger fellows are experts because
    they've read things but didn't experience history. Too many of both groups know just enough
    to make them dangerous. I tend to think hard before posting opinions, then decide not to.
     
  13. wvenfield
    Joined: Nov 23, 2006
    Posts: 5,580

    wvenfield
    Member

    I think sometimes we take things too seriously. Have fun. I've had people tell me things I've know was wrong. I generally just grin at them and go on doing what I was doing.
     
    timwhit, ClarkH, lewk and 11 others like this.
  14. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 4,413

    southcross2631
    Member

    I remember reading about the Mystery Motor in some 63 Chevys. I forget what publication it was in.
     
  15. Absolutely. What does it really matter in the big picture of life? You can correct people, but they probably won't believe you anyway, so with some people, why bother?
     
  16. The Mark II had a lot in common with the 348 and 409 as I have read.

    Yes I understand you had to be Junior Johnson, Smokey Yunick, or Rex White to have one. I was just passing on the history. The man I was talking to did not know anything off the Mark II and is sure that engine did not exist in '63. This is a man whom is a good friend.

    I have had people come up to me and say "You're an automotive expert" I always stop the because no one can know everything.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
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  17. Thank-You.
     
  18. Smokey who? :eek::D
     
  19. A man who will never be in the N.A.$.C.A.R. Hall of Fame.
    N.A.$.C.A.R. the ultimate in not knowing your history!
     
    HEMI32, 48fordnut, loudbang and 3 others like this.
  20. ..........some think they lived it.
     
    Robert J. Palmer likes this.
  21. History-
    It's written by the victors.
    It's taught by the government.
    Enforcement by the media.

    Secret stuff is also A BIG part of history but since it's a secret the masses will not know it. Good and bad both. The secret stuff, even when brought to light is considered bunk, myth, or lunaticary. Some stuff is just plain old flat omitted as well so the masses don't know it. Then it can be plausibly denied by the population in an echo chamber or even repeated. That "secret stuff" is a bigger part of "Why" than what's common knowledge "History". Then you have the other end of the secret stuff, and that's the baloney sauce they make up to explain the secret stuff. Don't even get me started there. Why did Brittany and France not declare war on Russia on sept 16th 1939 when Russia invaded Poland but declared war on Germany on sept 1st 1939 for invading Poland? Where's are the Weapons of mass destruction?

    Who wants to tell me about the 14 presidents of the United States (1776) BEFORE George Washington (1789) under the US constitution (1789)


    When it comes to the 60's and automobiles. There is the everyday common stuff that's history. Then there's a big bunch of back door working, things that almost happened, things that weren't supposed to happen, a few that slipped thru, factory experimental, and technology that's was shut down. Also history.

    Take for instance the story of GM's Jim Wagner and the GTO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  22. NASCAR history starts with a bunch of outlaw moonshine runners
     
  23. This brings me to my next point-
    I had a guy tell me that early stockcars were the first rat rod because all the stockcars were crude junk. I said it depended on where the car ran and that many early stockcars were well built.

    Steve Danish in the early to mid 50's
    upload_2018-1-16_15-43-9.jpeg
    upload_2018-1-16_15-43-34.jpeg

    Billy Blum in the late 50'sa and early 60's
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    The 10 Pins car in the with Nolan Swift in the early 60's. Yes I know his feet are exposed.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Matching truck trailer with uniforms, round tube chassis with front torsion bars. About as far from rat rod as you can get!
     

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    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  24. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    This is an eye opener of a read. It details how BS comes about then is believed to be the truth. The author even has is way with the reader to drive the point home. [​IMG]
     
  25. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  26. Johnny Gee
    Joined: Dec 3, 2009
    Posts: 12,602

    Johnny Gee
    Member
    from Downey, Ca

    But!?, was he the first? Where did he learn it? Parrot's I tell ya.
     
    Flathead Dave likes this.
  27. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    Hahahahaha

    Sent from my SM-G930T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
  28. Flathead Dave
    Joined: Mar 21, 2014
    Posts: 3,959

    Flathead Dave
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from So. Cal.

    People will repeat what they hear with no thought into it because it sounds good at the time. My brother does it. You would swear he was a walking encyclopedia if you didn't know better. Bullshit is bullshit until it's proven.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
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  29. elgringo71
    Joined: Oct 2, 2010
    Posts: 3,823

    elgringo71
    Member

  30.  
    tractorguy likes this.
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