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Technical HISTORY of Ford WIDE 5 Wheels

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by The37Kid, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,688

    The37Kid
    Member

    Looking at the photos of a long lost EAST COAST Hot Rod with Wide Five Ford wheels (1936-39) I wonder why they were popular? Sure stock cars used them because most of the cars had them to begin with, but are they lighter that a 40-48 Ford wheel & drum? Why did Ford go with that design in the first place? No right or wrong reason to use them, just wondering about their history. Bob
     
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  2. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    The hub, wheel and tire combo is lighter than the later 5x5-1/2". The main reason that the racers used them is because the wheel lugs are farther out 10-1/4" and the farther out you go the less leverage the tire has against the lug studs. The stronger hub could take the force that the smaller lug pattern couldn't. I have seen the lug nuts ripped through the rim in dirt track racing with small lug patterns.

    Another reason is that they started to use 3/4 ton truck rear ends in the race cars. These had the wide five pattern with thicker hubs and a larger center section with a 10" ring gear. Consequently this rear end called the Timken (also used in other makes like Willys and Studebaker) became the go to rear end and the someone made a quick change out of them by turning the pinion to the rear and welding a change box on and drilling for a quill shaft. This would become the championship quick change that has been made by Frankland, Halibrand, Winters, etc. that are used in sprint cars today.

    They would also cut off the rear 3/4 ton rear spindles and bolt them on the right front to put the heavier rear hub on the outside wheel to withstand the forces induced by constant left hand turns. The wide five wheels are 4" wide unless you get the V8 60 ones that are 3-1/2"wide and the truck ones that are 5" wide. The 36' hubs are all by themselves as the brake drum is about 7/8" farther inboard. The 37'-39' hubs are interchangeable between mechanical and hydraulic brakes and will fit all the way to 48'. Some hubs and drums are 1 piece and some are two piece with no real rhyme or reason to it other than the fact that they were manufactured by different suppliers.

    That is all I can think of now other than Dick Spadaro made adapters to fit modern rear ends for the hot rodders who wanted them. When he closed someone bought the last of the adapters and I bought them from him. I had them counter bored on the back side so that the studs would never be able to have interference with the brake drum. I got permission from Frank (Dicks brother) to go ahead and manufacture the adapters. I have that done at a local water jet place and a local machine shop. Proudly Made in USA. I sell them through a dealer, here is a link. http://ripkustoms.com/t/aftermarket I also sell adapter covers like the one pictured in my avatar but am out of stock right now.
     
  3. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,547

    oj
    Member

    I have a question or two, some wide 5 hubs are 2pc. Is there a certain year they were done that way? On the 2pc hub there is a counterweight, can that be removed if you use that hub with buick drum? The hubs have an odd 'dimple' in them, like when it was really hot somebody just pushed a screwdriver into the soft steel. What is the purpose of that dimple?
     
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  4. Smitty's32
    Joined: Dec 31, 2011
    Posts: 145

    Smitty's32
    Member

    I think that dimple was likely for the drive dog on the lathe when they were machining them.
     
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  5. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    That is the most likely reason. The 37' are usually 1 piece, but there seems to be no rhyme or reason when it comes to other years and shapes of the hubs. Best guess is they were made by different suppliers or different plants. The weight is to balance the drum. I am working on a disc brake conversion for the front 2 piece hubs and that weight will need to be removed. Even if you remove the swedged studs the two pieces won't separate because the drum is spot welded to the hub and needs to be drilled out.
     
  6. Glenn Ninow
    Joined: Dec 28, 2021
    Posts: 22

    Glenn Ninow
    Member

    Great info on the Wide Five Ford rims guys! Enjoying lurking in this Forum!
     
  7. 48fordnut
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 4,215

    48fordnut
    Member Emeritus

    Interesting stories.

    Thanks,

    jim
     
  8. hotcoupe
    Joined: Oct 3, 2007
    Posts: 618

    hotcoupe
    Member

    55 WILLY'S, that link didn't work for me.
    Tom
     
    Bigmac48 likes this.
  9. Wide five, a better idea, Ford. We still would like to know more about the history, ever today.

    better idea.PNG
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
  10. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    I'm currently out of stock on wide five adapters and covers. I plan on doing another run of them sometime this year.
    highway101ind.com
     
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  11. Salty 28
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 26

    Salty 28
    Member
    from Mandurah

    Thanks for sharing
     
  12. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    I am out of stock and he is not selling them for me anymore. My website is
    highway101ind.com
    I am trying to find a place to water jet them for a reasonable price.
     
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  13. Bigmac48
    Joined: Apr 3, 2017
    Posts: 663

    Bigmac48
    Member
    from Dundalk Md

    Thank you all for the interesting info and history lesson.
     
  14. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,688

    The37Kid
    Member

    14581_0.jpg


    Few people know that when you damage a Bugatti GP car wheel you just smash the other flat spokes with a hammer and saw off the rest, drill five holes, add the Wide Five and you are rolling again.

    DSCF2104.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2022
  15. wheelkid
    Joined: May 25, 2006
    Posts: 1,262

    wheelkid
    Alliance Vendor
    from Fresno, CA

    Is this the dimple you're talking about? If so, It's there the clear the hubcap clip rivet on the early wheels. Later wheels used a countersunk flush head rivet but the early ones use a round head that protruded from the back of the wheel and would interfere.
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,013

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Is water jet cutting cheaper or more precise than laser? There are a couple of laser cutting shops here in town that do a lot of precision cutting for car parts manufacturers.
     
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  17. Beanscoot
    Joined: May 14, 2008
    Posts: 3,338

    Beanscoot
    Member

    That's a great tech tip, I just know it's going to save me a tow some time!
    :D
     
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  18. oj
    Joined: Jul 27, 2008
    Posts: 6,547

    oj
    Member

    What size hammer do you use?
     
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  19. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 31,688

    The37Kid
    Member


    BFH!
     
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  20. Illustrious Hector
    Joined: Jun 15, 2020
    Posts: 539

    Illustrious Hector
    Member

    I used to get stuff made by the local steel yard here when they had a water jet. expensive, took a long time, they didn't like to do small runs ( less than 50) Then a laser cutting shop started up. What a precious resource! I submit my CAD lol, ( cardboard arcane drawings) or pre-existing example, and less than 30 hrs later they call saying "it's done" in a fraction of the time it would take me in my primitive shop. They sometimes ask what the piece is for, and when I tell them a Hot rod or bike or old car, they are enthusiastic and keep their computer program for the piece on file should future "runs" be required. 1 piece or 100, Steel, Stainless, alum, wood, anything except substances which produce toxic fumes when heated. At about 1/3 the cost of water jet. Like the Acorn ad says, "I was surprised at how little they cost!"
     
    Outback, rattlecanrods, Jet96 and 2 others like this.
  21. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    Some hubs have a divot in the face of the crowned part of the hub. It doesn't serve any purpose in normal use so it probably had something to do with the raw machining process.
     
  22. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    Where is this place?
     
  23. Illustrious Hector
    Joined: Jun 15, 2020
    Posts: 539

    Illustrious Hector
    Member

    Lasermann Cuts Ltd.
    8014- Edgar Industrial Crescent
    Red Deer, AB.
    T4P 3R3
    (403) 314-9154
     
  24. alanp561
    Joined: Oct 1, 2017
    Posts: 5,013

    alanp561
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Company called:
    Laser Fremont
    912 NW 50th St.
    Seattle, WA 98107
    206-390-5752
     
  25. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,712

    55willys
    Member

    Thanks, I will check them out.
     
  26. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,892

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    It is where the drive dog on the lathe set in, to turn them.
     
    Outback likes this.

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