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Hot Rods High Torque Mini Starter

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by BobRob72!, Aug 11, 2022.

  1. BobRob72!
    Joined: May 6, 2022
    Posts: 10


    I have a 327 engine in my '32 coupe that will not re-start after the engine gets warm. After it sits for awhile and cools down it will start again. The exhaust pipe coming off the header is real close to the starter. I think the heat from the exhaust pipe is causing the problem. I plan to replace the starter with a high torque mini starter and some kind of heat shielding. I will also wrap the exhaust. I am looking for suggestions for a starter and heat shielding. Appreciate any suggestions or recommendations anyone can give me.
  2. hepme
    Joined: Feb 1, 2021
    Posts: 397


    I had the same problem with a 327 in a coupe. Went to DB electrical (online) and bought one of theirs-instant fix. The lead came from someone from a long time ago, they are specialists in starters, etc. It lasted for only about 10 years and was perfect when i sold the car.
    1956 F100 and Algoma56 like this.
  3. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 10,287

    Bandit Billy

    My small Powermaster starter is also close to the header on my flathead so I wrapped this around it. It also makes it a bit less "visable".
    Desoto291Hemi likes this.
  4. Put a ford solenoid on it, problem solved

  5. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 53,352


    I had a similar problem with the 454 in my 55 years ago....I did some troubleshooting, and it seems the purple wire to the solenoid had enough voltage drop that it would not be able to trigger the solenoid. I added a small "bosch" relay to the purple wire, and that fixed it.

    Another starter option is the OEM gear reduction starter used on later GMs, such as for a 1998 truck with the 350 engine.

    Make sure to get the proper bolts to mount it. They have NC threads, but a 10mm metric shank, and a step at the knurl.
  6. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,866

    from VA

    ^^^^ voltage drop , ground or hot?

    How much Initial timing is in distributor?
    If around 15 plus degrees will be hard to start after engine is hot unless you have a remote button,
    I have afew 32 sbc & group of 3more exhaust runs right under starter (2 inches) with no issues,
    All with healthy hp , 3 of with over 400cid
    All have gm starter, 2 with late model mins
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 32,629


    This, plus larger diameter battery cables and a heat shield.

    No kit, just buy a Ford Solenoid such as a Standard SS581T that costs around 10 bucks.
    If you have the 4 ought cables replace them with the heavier cables.
    Dig out a heavy wire terminal with a 3/8 hole and flatten the end for the cable, figure out the distance between the battery cable stud on the Chevy starter and the S post. Drill a proper size hole to slide the terminal over both posts. Start wire then goes to S post on Ford starter.

    Get a heat shield similer to this one Mr. Gasket 3678 Mr. Gasket Starter Heat Shields | Summit Racing

    No need for a gear reduction aftermarket starter that will eat your ring gear. If you are hell bent on a gear reduction starter get a Delco for a late model Chevy for the correct size ring gear and avoid all the aftermarket gear reduction starter isues and you won't be the 400th guy on the Hamb that posts that is gear reduction starter is eating his ring gear what does he do now.
    Truckdoctor Andy and Algoma56 like this.
  8. I am working on a friends slightly OT El Camino with a set of Hooker Super Comps on it. I put a Ford style solenoid on the firewall, the starter cable is wrapped in this trick rubberized fiberglass sleeve and routed well out of the way of the primaries. He also has the starter wrap that was posted above to further shield the motor away from the header heat. If you do the Ford style solenoid route, you have to run a jumper wire from the large post on the Chevy solenoid to the original signal post in order for the whole thing to work.
  9. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,866

    from VA

    We can give all advice, But OP needs to know what actually is the problem!!!
    I have only had starter heat problems on Big block Chevy & a Monza with 406 sbc with stock fender wells.

    The reason most have problems with aftermarket mini starters/ Hi torque
    Eating ring gear is because Not install correct , On Sbc/Bb you need to install starter loose , then pull Bendix gear out & get correct gear mesh even if shims required, then tighten /torque bolts.
    The holes in starter are .050-.100 thousands bigger , If you donot Pay attention starter can be miss lined .
    OEM Bolts have knurling , most just use
    3/8s smooth shank bolts.
    SS327, ekimneirbo and squirrel like this.
  10. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 11,504


    I was having a hard time getting the stock starter (replacement) back in my kids car. Laying on my back and I just couldn’t get it back in through the exhaust pipe. Damned thing started getting heavier and heavier and I ran out of steam. I went to NAPA for a starter for a whatever I was told would work (mini factory GM) and something didn’t line up right, don’t recall. Took it back and went online to Summit and bought their 119 dollar mini starter (price is higher now) I think it’s an Hitachi, I forget. Came with knurled bolts and shims, and is indexable too.
    Slid it into place with shims, alignment was dead on. Lasted for two years, probably still be fine, but engine lunched a head gasket and her lazy dad(me) still has the engine in the shop.
    I think some mini starters don’t come with shims or proper bolts needed, so folks just scrounge up some “normal” bolts, put them on and have issues down the road.
    I haven’t looked in a long time, but you used to be able to look in the aisles of an AP store and get pre-packed starter bolts and shims off the racks.
  11. Moedog07
    Joined: Apr 11, 2011
    Posts: 474


    I have an off topic C-10 with an off topic SBC 400 with Hooker headers. I had the same type issues with hot starts. I upgraded the battery cables with a heavier gauge and added a DEI starter heat shield blanket and it cleared up my issues. If it matters my starter was an off the shelf Auto-Zombie rebuild.
  12. i.rant
    Joined: Nov 23, 2009
    Posts: 3,997

    1. 1940 Ford

    I just experienced this hot start issue big time on the way to Louisville this year. In the past after pulling off the interstate to get gas or pause at a rest stop there were times when I’d go to start and the first couple turns of the key would only produce a short grunt before it would fire up.
    BTW I did install a DEI heat wrap a year or so ago which wasn’t the 100% cure all in my case.
    Anyway while hot only way I was restarting was while I turned the key my friend would wack the starter with a hammer and away we’d go. Let me add in the morning or after sitting for a few hours it would fire right up.
    I went to the Powermaster booth and decided I’d get one of their mini- starters from the vender they suggested down the aisle.
    Nursed it home successfully and will install with the use of my friends lift tomorrow, :D
    ekimneirbo and Budget36 like this.
  13. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 11,504


    @i.rant we’d get a lot of Chevy cars in the early ‘80’s pulling in for gas (Phoenix) off the freeway that wouldn’t restart either. The mechanic would reel out the hose and spray the starter down for a bit to get them out of the pump lanes.
    bobss396 likes this.
  14. Dave G in Gansevoort
    Joined: Mar 28, 2019
    Posts: 1,861

    Dave G in Gansevoort
    from Upstate NY

    IMG_20201013_0007_NEW.jpg This engine had starter problems. Wasn't heat, maybe compression added a bit (14:1 on alcohol). Turned out the block was drilled incorrectly. It was a brand new over the counter part I had bought. Next engine, junkyard block, no problems...

    Go figure
    Algoma56 likes this.
  15. Gearhead Graphics
    Joined: Oct 4, 2008
    Posts: 3,891

    Gearhead Graphics
    from Denver Co

    unrelated, but kinda.

    thanks all, ive got a mini starter in my bucket, and its not from heat, but my solenoid died out. the seller is a jerk about warrantying it, so i think im going to just do a ford solenoid and call it a day. yall just saved me some hassle
  16. 19Eddy30
    Joined: Mar 27, 2011
    Posts: 1,866

    from VA

    Is this a new build / motor ?
    Or something that just stated with few thousand miles on ,
    If new build to much initial timing after ""Hot "" starter will struggle to turn engine over,
    If not new build check for voltage drop after Hot running @ Idle for around 20 mints or so ,
    Check Hot & Ground , and sufficient cranking amps & cable sizes,
    If all checks out go from their.
    If cables , H&G or battery amperage not sufficient its hard on solenoid contacts on the inside ,they will get burnt marks sort of like burning up a set of points.
    Not making good contact to kick Bendix out. A 6 foot plus power lead need to be correct size to carry the amperage draw.
  17. 26hotrod
    Joined: Nov 28, 2009
    Posts: 1,112

    from landis n c

    The Ron Frances wiring catalog has great info on hot start problems. Get one. It is a great resource for electrical problems........
  18. jimmy six
    Joined: Mar 21, 2006
    Posts: 13,081

    jimmy six

    [QUOTE="Mr48chev, post: 14575738, member: 45559"
    If you have the 4 ought cables replace them with the heavier cables.

    4/0 cable is huge for a car. You may mean #4. It is actually large on many 12 volt cars today and #6 is recommended on the internet and meets SAE engineering specs. I use #2 on my race vehicles with 14-1 compression.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
    Truckdoctor Andy and 19Eddy30 like this.
  19. BigDogSS
    Joined: Jan 8, 2009
    Posts: 972

    from SoCal

    We have used GM OEM permanent-magnet ("mini-starters") starters for years!!
    Brand new ACDelco *or* Remy starters are CHEAP:
    -- 153 Tooth straight bolt pattern starter from a 1996 Caprice w/LT1 5.7. Rock Auto link:,1037506,electrical,starter+motor,4152

    -- 168 Tooth staggered bolt pattern starter from a 1999 C1500 w/Vortec 5.7. Rock Auto link:,1352955,electrical,starter+motor,4152

    Easy fix!!
    Cheaper than a typical parts store rebuilt starter. But you have to pay shipping. I've done this swap on 4 different vehicles.
    Oh-yeah, be sure to get the correct starter bolts, as Squirrel mentions above.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
    Truckdoctor Andy likes this.
  20. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 22,618


    Is it done yet?!
  21. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 10,287

    Bandit Billy

    Perhaps he has yet to start? :cool:
  22. Budget36
    Joined: Nov 29, 2014
    Posts: 11,504


    I see what ya did there.
    Bandit Billy likes this.
  23. Owner is here now working on getting that fancy fuel tank and in tank pump installed then running the lines. I'm just here dicking around on the internet.
  24. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 22,618


    Holler if you want help.
    Pocket Nick likes this.
  25. 1995 K 1500 with a 350

    Ericnova72 likes this.
  26. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,589


    You will still need to fix your solenoid so the starter pinion engages.
    The Ford solenoid only overcomes the weak solenoid when it suffers from voltage drop caused by heat soak.
    19Eddy30 likes this.
  27. Bert Kollar
    Joined: Jan 10, 2007
    Posts: 1,190

    Bert Kollar

    Exactly, Wont start or wont crank ? Answers are meaningless without knowing the real problem
    G-son likes this.

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