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High RPM motors (8000+)

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by madmak95, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. Sir, you might want to seriously reconsider that intake runner size. 302 cube, street use, and maybe a solid roller. Please contact AFR before ordering, I believe you will find they will agree, TR
     
  2. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,675

    Larry T
    Member

    Yea, that intake port size is about right for a competition 350. You might want to consider something a little smaller.
    A call to the manufacturer is always a good idea on any major component.
    Larry T
     
  3. Harrisontx
    Joined: Oct 28, 2007
    Posts: 57

    Harrisontx
    Member
    from Waco Texas

    I had 180CC before, and traded them for the 210 eliminator. Figured in the UPPER RPM the larger runner would be needed to flow that massive air?

    What would be wrong with an oversized intake runner?
     
  4. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,109

    badshifter
    Member

    Very poor flow, no velocity for a good cylinder charge. You will KILL what little bottom end and mid-range you had.
     
  5. rallisracing
    Joined: Nov 3, 2008
    Posts: 199

    rallisracing

    My dad's 60 Falcon E/G had a 030 over 289 and he shifted it at 8400 and crossed the finish line at 9000 in the late 60's early 70's ...and my buddies, the Olsons Bros, Maverick with a 318 cubic inch Boss 302 would turn 9500 all day long...yep, little Fords will do it too...its called having a good combination.
     
  6. PinHead
    Joined: Jun 3, 2005
    Posts: 243

    PinHead
    Member

    Its just like picking headers and exhaust, you want the smallest port size that won't restrict flow. All things being equal, the smaller port will have higher velocity flowing through it.

    The port size is just that - how big the port is, it doesn't have anything to do with how well it flows. You just need enough flow for the size and operating rpm you're running.
     
  7. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,675

    Larry T
    Member

    I don't believe a word of it.
    I don't know how, but you Ford guys have gotta be cheating. :)

    You should have stuck around, cruise night was pretty good this year.
    Larry

    BTW Here are some rough estimates for port size/horsepower for SBCs.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 16, 2011
  8. wayne-o
    Joined: Jan 22, 2006
    Posts: 270

    wayne-o
    Member

    We ran a JR Dragsters in the mid 1990's. 5hp Briggs, stock crank, aftermarket rod, piston, head, cam, balanced, etc. On alcohol. Had a recording tach. 9000 - 9200 every pass. And it was a flathead to boot. Never a problem in 2 years of running it.
     
  9. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 17,793

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Top it off with an E-brock RPM AIR GAP intake and a "well tuned" 750 Holley with vac/secondaries (3310-?) carb... You'll have a riot with it!! :D
     
  10. trad27
    Joined: Apr 22, 2009
    Posts: 1,109

    trad27
    Member

    The 283 in my old A pickup would turn 7 grand and maybe more ,was a little scared of that flywheel and not ashamed to admit it. Pretty stock too, power packs, true dontov 30 30, torker single plain, holley 4150, roller rockers, mallory dual point and 2 1/2" rams horns. A blast to drive in a light model A with a 5 speed. 283's are my favorate engine by far. I have a std 283 crank for sale if any one is looking...
     
  11. BHT8BALL
    Joined: Aug 22, 2010
    Posts: 262

    BHT8BALL
    Member

    I built a 304 with Buick heads in '88 for Bonneville, 1st run on the dyno it made 545 hp. by '94 it made 685 @ 8,800 and shifted @ 9,000. in my avatar it set a record of 210 on gas running a 3.42 gear. Expensive? yes, but it was bullet proof. used Kinsler fuel injection with 2.438 dia. throttle plates. The smell of toluene is stuck in my soul!
     
  12. Harrisontx
    Joined: Oct 28, 2007
    Posts: 57

    Harrisontx
    Member
    from Waco Texas

    I'm honestly looking for help. I, unlike a lot of you guys, was not around back in the day. I've read the only two books I can find on small cube small blocks, and they were not too much help. They spoke only of factory stuff, and didn't offer any sort of guidance toward picking a cam. Do you respond that way because you lack the technical knowledge for a helpful suggestion?
     
  13. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 17,793

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    If your looking for cam specs, See what Lunati, Crane or any of those other cam grinders have to offer....
    BY the way... I've been building sbc motors since the mid '70's... Have you????
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  14. RobsHemiA
    Joined: Jan 25, 2007
    Posts: 109

    RobsHemiA
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  15. i had a 3600lbs nova with a 331 5.67 gears and would turn 8200rpm going through the lights. now building a 70's style 301 small journal crank, aluminum rods high domed pistons, crane roller cam hilborn stack injectors will be running alky instead of gas and victor jr heads instead of camel bumps 461-2 heads
     
  16. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 17,793

    Deuces
    Member
    from Michigan

    Please.... Show us some pictures!!! Thank you! :)
     
  17. Bucksnort
    Joined: Dec 24, 2007
    Posts: 3,308

    Bucksnort
    Member

    I'll add to this.
    Late 60's-late 70's ran E,then F and finally G/MP as NHRA kept fooling with weight breaks.
    287"=3.875 283 bore +.030=3.905
    Aluminum SuperRods-standard length
    Venolia pistons with gas ported Dykes
    283 crank with some knife edging
    Big Crane roller and rev kit
    Round port Mondello heads-gotta relieve the small bore a bit for the valves.
    6:17 gear
    50# wheel w/ super T-10
    57 Chevy s/w-close to 4000 lbs with me in it.
    Usually left at 8600-8800
    Shift at 9600.
    Always put a smile on my face.
    Have the SuperRods in a 311" short block for the wagon that I still have and hope to get on the track again.
     
  18. I'm selling the hot rod and moving to Austrailia, very cool.
     
  19. I have built a few true race motors that turned well over 10k but they were all built with big money parts. The best daily drive street race motor combo i had was back in the late 70's. It was a 427 tall deck chevy bored .100 over with a knife edged lighted 396 steel crank and a good set of long light steel rods coupled to muncie 4 speed that i would short shift it at 8,500 but if i thought it was going to be a close race i would change to stronger valve springs and shift at 10,000 if needed but that seemed to be the safe limt of my valve train as every time the muncie M22 exploded and it did way to many times i usally bent some push rods and damaged a few rocker arms so i allway's carried a few spares. I loved it when the comp told me a BBC would not rpm.
     
  20. BamaBobAlex
    Joined: Jun 7, 2011
    Posts: 8

    BamaBobAlex
    Member
    from Alabama

    i had a 340 (4.040 bore x 3.31 stroke) mopar in th late 90's went 1.31 60ft times @9100 rpm start with doug nash 5 speed. 5.13 geared dana. heavy 70's tube chassis
     
  21. Awesome story, thanks for sharing. Even idling on the dyno, you know there is something different about them, the port arrangement is just the way it should be. :D TR
     
  22. mustang6147
    Joined: Feb 26, 2010
    Posts: 1,847

    mustang6147
    Member
    from Kent, Ohio

    Back to the original post. Launching at 10,000 rpms? that was before they used track adhesive.

    I shift my car at 7500. That is where my cam stops making power. My mentality is, why turn it any faster then you have to, and it seems NHRA has also adopted this with shortening the top fuel track. Its at the high end that most damage occurs.

    I know Billy Glidden, (Bobs son) builds engines and his along with a few others routinely turn 9500 rpms. However dont say they have oil in the pan or a windage tray, cuz at that point the engine is way past that. Engines that turn High RPMs are dry. They have external lubrication, and oil accumulators for pump failure as the engine automaticaly shuts down.

    Becarefull runnin alluminum rods. High RPM engines ussually need H or I beams for longevity. Aluminum stretches and is high maintenance
     
  23. masracingtd1167
    Joined: Oct 20, 2009
    Posts: 100

    masracingtd1167
    Member
    from ct

    Are you having problem's with the cylender walls ? One option for you would be a later 4 bolt main block and just use spacer bearings or use bearing spacers with standard small journal bearings . A 3 inch stroke crank is a great way to make high r.p.m. power and is easier on parts than a long stroke crank . Usually the limiting factor in making high rpm power in a small block is the weight of the valve train .don't be afraid of rpm if you use good parts in the motor and keep after it .
     
  24. badshifter
    Joined: Apr 28, 2006
    Posts: 3,109

    badshifter
    Member

    1000 foot racing has nothing to do with keeping parts together and costs down and everything to do with keeping insurance costs down by reducing speed and allowing more shut down room, less killing and maiming. They twist them just as high as they used to.

    They blow up and oil down just as often as they used to at 1320. They just upped the oil retention and part retention items.
     
  25. Sir, I have to defend Deuces here, you'll be hard pressed to find someone as easy going, personable, and quite knowledgeable too. Surely just a case of misunderstanding. TR
     
  26. spoons
    Joined: Jan 1, 2004
    Posts: 1,738

    spoons
    Member
    from ohio

    My SS/J, 283/ 220 hp rated(NHRA) left the line @ 9,500, shift @ 8,500 10.90's @ 127 and change.....
    HARD on Ring and Pinions....
     

    Attached Files:

  27. my C/SM nova only ran 11.40 on a 11.00 index and 118mph budget motor and a newby 25 year old builder(me) I don't have many pics I'll try to find some,we didn't take many pics back then
    I just got THE 302 crank back to-day needed to be machined as it had rust on it do to poor storage the 302 is going into an altered the build has been slow because i'm retired on a limited income.
     
  28. greg32
    Joined: Jun 21, 2007
    Posts: 1,938

    greg32
    Member
    from lemont,IL

    We run a 528 BBC, donovan block, 11 degree brodix heads, aluminum rods, five stage dry sump, .960 cam lift, single holley, and a 500 shot of nitrous.Goes thru the lights at 9400 with ease. Lives all year unless we miss the tune up and melt pistons. But, it costs money. You need the best parts to make 1500 hp and have it survive. We dyno at an engine builder that builds winning ARCA motors, learned a lot about oiling systems from him, the key to keeping all those expensive parts where they belong.Before ARCA put a rev limit on everyone, his small blocks would spin 8800 to 9000 all day, and need a rebuild after 2200 miles of racing.
     
  29. 480 BBC (4.500 X 3.76) 15.2:1, 6 1/2" Carillo rods. 15736842 firing order.

    Have turned it 8100 without problems, although I'd rather keep it down around 7600.

    [​IMG]
     
  30. T Fritz
    Joined: Jul 1, 2010
    Posts: 175

    T Fritz
    Member

    Our B-ville car. A 53 Stude. 182" Stude V8, custom tunnel ram, 4150 390 carb. 7900 rpm at the 3rd to 4th shift point.

    T Fritz
     

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