Register now to get rid of these ads!

Hot Rods Heritage Gas: Traditional Gasser Classes and Racing

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Don Moyer, Jul 18, 2017.

?

do you have any interest in Heritage Gas

Poll closed Aug 17, 2017.
  1. yes

    54 vote(s)
    55.7%
  2. no

    43 vote(s)
    44.3%
  1. Mike Colemire
    Joined: May 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,158

    Mike Colemire
    Member

    The worst part about it is cost. Look on ebay, you stick gasser on a set of old alum wheels and they double in price. I've seen several sets of double hump heads that cost more than a set of new alum heads. These old parts are going through the roof, and people are actually selling them. I hope it works out and you do well with it.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  2. Higgy's Henry
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 427

    Higgy's Henry
    Member

    I agree! I have a set of Virgin camel hump heads and I am holding on to them for a little nest egg when I retire lol!
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  3. Yeah, nobody's gonna get rich from race winnings, but a wad of cash afterwards is always fun to get.
    Many years ago, I was lucky enough to win Super /Stock at a Lebanon Valley Funny car night show.
    I'm sitting there in the clubhouse after, having a sandwich and a beer with Don Prudhomme at the same table.
    They open the curtain and called me up to the payout table, and count out 100, ONE dollar bills.
    Seemed like a lot of money at the time LOL.
    I let the neighbor kid, who was helping me, hold onto the money all the way back to Hartford.

    Sorry..Messed that up earlier...That would have been a pay day!
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  4. Again, years ago, the local track didn't pay much for Street Bracket. In fact, you had to win it to make anything. Runner -up couldn't even break even.
    We started what was called ...how should I say this?... a "brothers" pool.
    Anyone who wanted in , threw in a $20. The guy that got the farthest in eliminations got 60%, 2nd farthest, 40 %.
    If you won, you had to run the pool the next week.
    Don't ask Don about this...He don't know nothin'!
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  5. Lots of Hot Rods today run around as rolling museum pieces and don't blow up. It all depends on how competitive the person behind the wheel is. If he/she is that competitive, I think we have proven that there are parts from 1964 that can handle the power from 1964 based on the technology of the time. Von Hartman, thank you so much for chiming in on this! I really appreciate the time and thought you put into your comments, instead of just saying it won't work. But if it does work......
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  6. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 45,352

    squirrel
    Member

    That's the thing, getting racers to not be competitive is difficult.
     
    els, chevy57dude and Don Moyer like this.
  7. I run a couple events now. As the Meltdown guys will attest, it is a ton of work putting on an entire event. Rock'N'Race is right around the corner and we offered to pay every Gasser in the country to attend. It is a nostalgia event with heads up flag start hot rod/ muscle car drags on friday night. Weight to cubic inch Gas class heads up on Saturday night and Index/Bracket and Dragster/Altered heads up racing on Sunday. Also included in the show are 9 live bands to date, 5 Nitro cars, 4 funny cars and a jet car. Just a Gasser show is tough. Our goal is to offer tracks an alternative to a Gasser show, but to actually sanction Gasser racing in their show. End all is to put people in the seats, something the current trend of racing seem to have forgotten about!
     
    els, slayer, Chucky and 2 others like this.
  8. I couldn't have said it any better!
     
    els and loudbang like this.

  9. Correct the 350 crank is not allowable. The Roller cam may be as they had them in 1964, your profile should be similar to what was available at that time. An earlier version of your A-833 is totally allowable in this class but your 1966 has several upgrades that make it not allowed.

    BY RICHARD EHRENBERG. Copyright © 1989 Richard Ehrenberg. Reprinted by permission.
    First printed in Mopar Action


    New model intro time, fall of 1963: At last! An all-new transmission, designated the A-833, is available in everything from 6-cylinder Valiants to rip-snortin’ Max Wedges. Equipped with a standard Hurst-Campbell “Competition-Plus” shifter and four fully synchronized forward speeds, it is built in Chrysler’s Syracuse (New York) New Process Gear plant. Even in 1989, it was the largest, strongest, and heaviest four-gear passenger car transmission ever built in America.

    From day one, there were two distinct versions of this box: A-body (later to be used in F-bodies) and B-body (also to be found in later C- and E-bodies). Initially there were three main version-to-version differences: extension housing and mains haft length, low-gear ratio and rear-flange size. The A-car box, while every bit as strong as its larger cousin, carries a 3.09-to-1 low gear, to launch small cars with even smaller mills.

    For 1965 there was only one noteworthy upgrade: the 1-2 shifter fork is redesigned to ease second-gear powershifts.

    In 1966, though, several important changes appeared. First (and worst), the Hurst shifter was eliminated, replaced by a hollow-shaft Inland unit. Enthusiasts generally agree that this was a giant step backward, but Joe Average liked the reverse lockout feature. Second, the ball-and-trunnion front U-joint flange was gone, replaced by a more typical sliding-spline yoke arrangement.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  10. We are all competitive in some way or another. This class is more for the purist, not the need for speed guy. There were no oil downs that I saw at the Race of Gentlemen at Pismo Beach, but they were still trying to win the race. They knew they were running bangers or flatheads and knowing the limitations of your machine may help it last longer.
     
    els, Chucky and loudbang like this.
  11. neighborkidswillys
    Joined: May 9, 2010
    Posts: 84

    neighborkidswillys
    Member
    from byron

    So you are limiting the cubic inch of these motors to what they came form the factory with? Because Mickey Thompson was stroking all kinds of stuff earlier than 64.


    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    els, Don Moyer and grantrobert like this.
  12. Exactly.

    If you are not using the deep pockets of Corporate America the first thing you better learn is not to break it if you want to race it.
     
    els, Don Moyer and loudbang like this.
  13. blownhemi48
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 234

    blownhemi48
    Member
    from Bergen NY

    South East Gassers put on a gasser show that sells out all the venues they race at. They don't seem to have any problem putting fans in the stands for a gasser show. If you could somehow get this class you propose up and running, the Heritage racers would be the show. I think they should get something (cash prize/ contingencies) for it. The track promoters want the racers to show up and pay to race so they can make all the money. Well they aren't the ones building the cars and traveling. It almost seems like you want to be even more period correct than the SEG. Make the rules sensible and have prizes and they will come.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  14. Do the SEG guys race for money? I've never heard that they do and I'd look for Quain to tighten his rules over the next few years.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  15. blownhemi48
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 234

    blownhemi48
    Member
    from Bergen NY

    Yes they do.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  16. Thanks. I didn't know. I'm building a period correct Anglia but it wasn't for the money, I can bracket race around here for a lot more, and spending a lot less. LOL
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  17. Higgy's Henry
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 427

    Higgy's Henry
    Member

    Believe me it's not much, like $50/round win. You don't pay an entrance fee either for driver and one crew member. So thats like being up $60-70 as soon as you enter the gate!! I drive down from Ontario Canada to race with them...the money is not the reason I'm there!
     
    els, loudbang, Don Moyer and 3 others like this.
  18. and that's what it should be about. If your hung up on the money your on the wrong site.
     
  19. blownhemi48
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 234

    blownhemi48
    Member
    from Bergen NY

    There's alot of drag race stuff on this site. All the touring pros everyone idolizes didn't make their living just by winning national events, they would have starved. They made their living match racing for appearance money. So because I lobby for the the people who build and race the cars to get a little piece of the pie, I'm on the wrong site? How self righteous of you.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  20. saltflats
    Joined: Aug 14, 2007
    Posts: 9,913

    saltflats
    Member
    from Missouri

    I have run with the 348/409 group and its about being with the best bunch of guys and gals you you could dream of.
    Just got home from a trip to Ohio with them. Great time and no money but we got to race for free.
     
    els, loudbang, Don Moyer and 2 others like this.
  21. Higgy's Henry
    Joined: Dec 29, 2010
    Posts: 427

    Higgy's Henry
    Member

    I don't think anyone was giving you the gears for your post ( definitely not me!) I agree with you, there should be something for the cars/ drivers, like you said they are the show!!!
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  22. I race because I like to, not for money, if I did it for money I WOULD starve that's why I have a job.:D
     
    Budget36, els, loudbang and 1 other person like this.
  23. blownhemi48
    Joined: Nov 17, 2009
    Posts: 234

    blownhemi48
    Member
    from Bergen NY

    I can understand that.
     
    els, loudbang and Don Moyer like this.
  24. Von Hartmann
    Joined: Nov 21, 2006
    Posts: 971

    Von Hartmann
    Member
    from Byron, IL

    I'm still into this whole idea, but I'm a little confused by this response. I know there are a lot of museum piece hot rods that drive around and don't blow up, but we are talking race cars right? Like 12 - 13:1 compression? I'm not going to suggest that you can't build a car with all 1964 dated parts and run it down a track without blowing it up. I'm suggesting I don't think you can run that car repeatedly down the track and it hold together. Especially if your rules outlaw the most durable transmissions of the 1960s decade.

    Racers blew up motors and transmissions all the time in 1964. The ones that survived have been cycled on and off for 50 or 60 years. Parts fatigue from use. A brand new 4 speed in 1964 would hold up, for a while, but not forever.

    The race of gentlemen is not the same as a drag race on a track. There is a big different between a 150 hp flathead on sand, and a 550 hp race motor on a sticky track with slicks. And yes, there was breakage at the race of gentlemen. I know for a fact that at least one fellow threw a rod. Oil downs in sand don't hold up racing like an oiled down drag strip.

    So what do we do when we seek out these now rare components, then break on the 3rd pass? If this was 1964 we would go get another one, but it's not easy like that these days. Maybe we want to find the 1964 case, but we have to settle for a 1966?

    Also, neighborkidswillys is right. Mickey Thompson was stroking Chevy small blocks to over 400 cubic inches in 1964. I traded an early 60s CSC crank to a friend that stroked a small journal 327 to a 364. Mickey Thompson was making 350 cranks as well.
     
    els, Don Moyer and loudbang like this.
  25. southcross2631
    Joined: Jan 20, 2013
    Posts: 3,546

    southcross2631
    Member

    I still say the best combo for your heritage class would be a 283 bored to 301 with a top loader Ford 4 speed and a Pontiac or Olds rear end. You put that in a 2400 lb. car with a 9 inch slick. You would be hard to beat and it wouldn't break easily. Hilborn injection or dual off set quads with a pair of carters or early holleys . Run a mag or an old cast iron distributor. Finding date coded parts would be the sticky part of the build.
     
  26. No, not limiting it, if it was done back then, the build has to mirror that. Stroking the motor will obviously change the size of the motor also, changing the class. That is the beauty of Gas class racing.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  27. The South East Gassers do put on a great Gasser Show! YES this is going to be a true "Period Correct" class. We do want the tracks to make money, they are not our enemy here! We like their playground and want to support it to the fullest. Making racing fun again is our main goal, if we are having fun, the fans will come. Money/cash prizes muddy up the fun for some folks. Trophies and media recognition will more than fuel the ego of many a builder.
     
    els, Higgy's Henry and loudbang like this.

  28. The A-833 is allowed, but it has to be the early version. I use the Race of Gentlemen as a point of reference as to the 'feel' for this class. Racing at all levels has breakage. We highly recommend the use of modern safety equipment and diapers to keep it safe for the participants and easier on the track staff. I totally understand your opinion on the transmissions, but it cannot be fair to allow a modern manual and not a modern automatic. Then the class is watered down. If someone goes through the effort to stroke a motor for more cubic inch, they are serious enough to spend the money for a Top-loader to put behind it, or find that early Chrysler Trans. Part of the fun is using this old stuff. Is that 1966 case identical to the 1964 case? Then you can use it.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  29. I agree, and not that hard to find.
     
    els and loudbang like this.
  30. 31hotrodguy
    Joined: Oct 29, 2013
    Posts: 1,308

    31hotrodguy
    Member

    I agree. This like back then is still going to be a popular combination. The later 283 block is still cheap. In fact most people still scrap them. Most of the 3 inch cranks are forged and like the blocks are usually stuff people take to the scrap. As for the pontiac/Olds rear end I believe Fabcraft has a lot new stuff. The date coded trans is going to make it hard but I get what Don is trying to do here. Anybody been to the March Meet in Bakersfield lately? Not very nostalgic is it?

    Sent from my SM-G550T using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    els and Don Moyer like this.

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2020 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.